Sathatha Sri Vishnava – Chattada Srivaishnava


SATHADHA SRIVAISHANAVAS IN FOREIGNER’S RESEARCH


Professor Robert C. Lester, University of Colorado, U.S.A. spoke on The Sathatha Sri Vaishanavas at the Kuppuswami Sastri Research Institute, Madras – 4, on 29.07.1988 he pointed out:

The Sathatha Sri Vaishnavas are a distinctive community, about thirteen hundred thousands in number spread throughout Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. For several centuries, they have rendered a variety of services in Sri Vaishnava temples as archakas, dharmakartas, guardians of temple properties and suppliers of flowers – garlands for worship etc., . There are several subsects in this community, Many follow a life style like that of the Sri Vaishanava Brahmins. Their names have the Characteristic honorary suffix-“Ayya” and the title “Daasar”. They especially revere the Sankha, the Chakra, the Naamam, Hanuman and Garuda. Above all, they honour the Aazhvaars, especially, Nammaazhvaar. They recite and use only the Aazhvaar’s hymns for domestic rituals. Most of them are disciples of Koil Annan-and Acharya Purusha of Sri Rangam. Some follow the Vaanamaamalai Math and others the Para Vastu Math at Tirupati.

In the past fifty years, they have formed local, regional and national associations for the education and upliftment of their community. They have the right to recite Prabandhams along with Brahmins in the “Iyal Goshti”. (Hymn-singing group) This was true in Srirangam upto 1942. Possibly the term “Sathatha” is a corruption of Sat-taada (Sanskrit “Sat” and Tamil Taada (D (Dhasa) meaning pure or true servent. The term “Sathatha” may also mean in Tamil, “one who does not wear the sacred thread or top-knot(sikha).

The Srirangam “koil Olugu” records that this community was serving in the srirangam temple at the time of Sri Ramanujacharya (11th century A.D) and that this Acharya assigned them special duties and services in his reorganisation of the temple.

This community was prominent in Srirangam and Kanchipuram (15th and 16th centuries) under the leadership of Kanudaadi Ramanujudasar, who was a disciple of both Koil Annan at Srirangam and Azhagiyamanaavala Jeeyar at Kancheepuram Varadarajaswami temple. They were in charge of Ramanuja Kootams.

The lecture was followed by a lively discussion, the participants being the president of the Dr. A. Thiru Venkatanathan ( Vaishnava College), Agnihotram Ramanuja Thathachariar, Prof. R.N. Sampath and others, each stressing different pertinent points.

Courtesy: INDIAN EXPRESS: 3.8.98

Also Refer :

About these ads

144 thoughts on “Sathatha Sri Vishnava – Chattada Srivaishnava

  1. krishnamohan

    This caste or community is in search of an identity. Hoary past notwithstanding, it is perhaps the boundary line if you consider brahmin – non brahmin continum. The brahmins brand SSVs as non-brahmins and non-brahmins think them as brahmins. This problem is for the veg stock of SSVs. From a sociological view point you have all the shades. Temple servants, agriculturist,flower vendors, turmeric vendors etc. In some places conch-blowing in temples were also undertaken by the community. It is a bunch of communities grouped under one grand name viz: SSV. There can be a networking organised to voice for the upliftment.

    Reply
  2. Ganapathi

    Probably this is the reason for marriages between Iyengars & SSVs ; between Naidus & SSVs. Is it so??? I have seen two marriages between Naidus & SSVs…..

    Reply
  3. Madhavan

    Dear SSVs,

    I would be happay when one who is seeing this mail…

    I am calling you for one unity into our community

    will it happen in this century?

    can we find a leader for our community?

    We have a time to take this for discussion….

    Anybody is there?

    Feel free call me….

    V Madhavan
    9940137716

    Reply
    1. Karpuram Venkateswarlu

      Dear madhavan,pl;eased to see your mail. In andhra chathada srivaishnavas are well organized and had a office of their own in Hyderabada and in sevaral districts.They are trying to help our community people. Now the members of the community is well developed. more than 1000 one thosand boys and girls of hyderabad alone are in USA and Australia and in Uk and one omore thosand from other districts like Karimnagar,warangal etc.One Sri Anantha Swamy had become Vice Chancellor of Usmania University and another Prof gangadhar belonging to our commnty had becomeVice Chancellor of Mahatma Gandhi University. More than half dozen are well placed as university professors.Atleast 5 of them had become chief engineers of the State Governments.It is a well knit community growing full in tune with changing times groping without any assistance. be proud of our community which had given the education to villagers from the begining including to late Prime Ministers Sri P.V.Narsimha Rao. Late Narasimham a forest Officer of our communty was beheaded by Veerappan in karnataka .There are more than 1000 soft ware engineers in Hyderabad and bangalore.Girls are equal in number.
      wish you all the best
      KarpuramVenkateswarlu Ex- President of Ap Chathada Srivaishnava Community
      karpuram_venkat@yahoo.com
      9849582672

      Reply
    2. Tiruvaimudi Ramesh Kumar

      Hi Madhavan

      I support you, let us together do it to bring unity

      T Ramesh Kumar
      9866332059

      Reply
    3. MOHAN

      ITS VERY NICE MR. MADHAVAN,I THERE ARE VARIOUS ASSOCIATIONS , ORGANIZATIONS, IN KARNATAKA, ERSTWHILE ANDHRAPRADESH,AND TAMILNADU, THEY ARE DOING NOTHING , I WISH TO RECOLLECT , WHEN I HAD AN OPPORTUNIITY TO DISCUSS SOME BACKWARD CLASS QUOTA FOR OUR COMMUNITY ,WITH A PROMINENT CENTRAL MINISTER HE SAID UR COMMUNITY DOES NOT HAVE A BIG VOTEBANK ITS VERY DIFFICULT TODO ANYTHING, SECONDLY SCATTERED IN VARIOUS PLACES WITH DIFFERENT IDENTITIES, UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL,. GOD ONLY CAN DO SOMETHING FOR OUR PEOPLE ITS PAINFUL

      Reply
  4. Anand Kumar

    Hi Madhavan,

    This is Vedantham Anand Kumar, Know a days in A.P from Our SSVs Community people are contested elections in 2009 from Lok Satta party and some body from Telugu Desam party. If we keep on encouraging this guys, The Day is not far We will definetly get a Good Leader

    Reply
    1. RAGHAVENDRA

      HI SIR I TOO BELONGS TO THIS CATEGORY PLZ TELL ME FEMOUS PERSONALITIES OF OUR CAST EX. LEADER, ACTORS AND JAYALALITHA AND KAMAL HASSAN ARE BELONGS TO OUR COMMUNITY OR NOT?

      Reply
      1. Maadhavan Post author

        They are not as for as I know. May be someone can give answers for the question regarding personalities.

      2. MOHAN

        NO JAYALALITHA &KAMALAHASSAN ARE BRAHMINS NOT FROM OUR COMMUNITY BUT ONE SHRI. N. VANAMAMALAI ,FROM TIRUNELVELI IS A PROMINENT MARXIST IDEALOGIST, AND WRITTEN NUMBER OF BOOKS ON MARXISM , INDIAN FOLKLORES,, AND REGULARLY INVITED BY THE ERSTWHILE SOVIET UNION,

    1. Raghavendra.a

      hi anand sir i think u know the briefly about our community i’m belongs to andhra i heard lot of members belongs 2 our community in tamilnadu and who are the famous personalities belongs to ssv’s plz post me mail

      Reply
  5. Thirunagari VS Karuna Sagar

    Dear SSVs,

    I am 49, still I have to explain so much when it comes to caste. Because, most of the people doesn’t know about this. I was born in Andhra Pradesh, Samalkot, West Godavari Dist., But where as my Sir name indicates something strange feelings to the locals as this sounds to belong to some other state.

    I don’t have much knowledge about my caste, what I can explain to them. But to day some thing I found and replying to this. Pls. keep informing me about ours.

    Regards

    Sagar Thirunagari

    Reply
    1. venkatesh. sannidhi

      hello sir my name is sannidhi venkatesh i too belong to chattada srivishnava iam from visakhapatnam iam mailing u in response to ur mail in this site on last jan. by the way i am 24 and just completed my mbbs want to know more about our caste thats all please mail to my adress: mssmviki85@gmail.com thanku sir

      Reply
    2. Karpuram Venkateswarlu

      Dear Sagar no body shall inferior by birth. Chathada srtivaishnavas are small in number, which does not mean it is a inferior community. Jews are small rather microscopic commnity when compared to Hindus, Cheristians and Muslims , yet they are well known throughout world.Chathada srivaishnavas are a total of 28000 families in andhrapradesh higher than vaiskanasa srivaishnavas, but produced two Vicechancellore of Universities in andhrapradesh and more tha 2000 soft waare Engineers are serving america and australia and u.k.We have changed a lot limping at times without support but on average our people progressed a lot. The community is organizing by having its office and publishinh monthly magazine by name chathada srivaishnava vaartha.
      best wishes
      karpuram venkateswarlu Ex President Ap Chathada srivaishnava community Hyderabad
      9849582672

      Reply
  6. Maadhavan Post author

    Hi Sagar, I believe your surname comes from the famous Vaishnavite Town called Azhwar Thirunagar in Thirunelveli District in Tamil Nadu. Great Nammal Azhwar is from this town.

    Regards

    Maadhavan

    Reply
  7. Kinshuk

    Dear All,

    I am SSV, please join my Facebook Group ” Sattada Srivaishnava” to discuss/ delve on the subject.

    My Facebook Profile name is “Kinshuk udayakumar”

    Warm Regards

    Kinshuk

    Reply
  8. SHOBA RANI CHIRUVANDAL

    This is quite interesting. As far as I know, our community in Andhra Pradesh has a “Sangham ‘ of it’s own. Some people have really made effort and we own a building too.
    As per facts, the SSV’s in andhra are mostly non-vegetarians. I know a few relatives in our community who do “archakatwam” in temples.

    Reply
    1. SampathkumaraSwamy

      most of SSV are become non-vegitarians in Andhra Pradesh. But still so many of SSV are pure vegitarians and follows all traditions & rituals of Sri Vaishnavism(Vishistadwaith) by Parama Guru Sri Ramanuja Charya.
      All other should also follow the same.
      Then we will be respected in all aspects.

      Reply
  9. Dr.C. VIJAYA RAGHAVACHARYULU, DIRECTOR, SITA, ENDTS DEPT.HYDRABAD

    Sreemathe Ramanujaya Namah.
    Sathatha Sri Vaishnavas or Chattada Sree Vaishnavas are a distinct community basically devoted to the servitude of Lord Sreemannarayana. They scrupulously follow the dictates and preachings of Bhagavad Ramanuja and that of the twelve Alwars. In Andhra Pradesh, they are rendering excellent service in Vaishnava temples as Archaka swamys, taliga swamys and Divya Prabandha Parayanadars, though they neither claim nor recognized as Brahmim Sree Vaishnavas. They have infinite faith in the Visishtadwaita Sampradaya and maintain such traditional discipline and decorum and focus their commitment to the Jeeyar Sampradaya.

    The Endowments Department in Govt of Andhra Pradesh
    appointed them as Archaka swamys in Vaishnava temples at Kondagattu (Karimnagar Dist), Manyamkonda(Mahabubnagar Dist) and Penchalakona (Nellore Dist).

    The State Institute of Temple Administration (SITA) of theEndowments Depts has developed training modules to strengthen and promote the form of Pancharatra Agama worship in the temples where these revered communityis functioning as Archakas, lest the community may not sustain further if not promoted in good number, since their progeny are opting for professional courses and the existing number may get gradually reduced.

    Chhattada Sree Vaishnavas deserve encouragement, support and patronage in social, economic, cultural and religious fields further.

    provided them berths as Archaka Swamys in certain prominent temples li

    Reply
    1. SampathkumaraSwamy

      Shri. Dr.C. VIJAYA RAGHAVACHARYULU, Garu
      What you said is absolutely true.
      but unfortunately most of Chattada SriViashnavas are became non-vegitarians only some of them are following the rituals of Visistadwaitha.
      All should teach their children about our tradition & ritulas of Visistadwatha to follow.
      then we also get respected among all other vaidiks.

      Reply
  10. Krishnamohan

    Respected Vijayaraghavacharyalu swami

    1. As Director, SITA and your background in vaishnavism, you have lamented for the present status of this community and urged them to come back to the mainstream in temple administration.
    As is the case of different communities who have abandoned temple service this community has also lost the oppurtunity and lay marginalised.
    In a democratic country, the temple service can be only voluntary. Your institute may consider (perhaps in conujunction with sree venkateswara university) degree and PG courses in Pancharatra Agama with apprentice training being compulsory.

    2. SSVs are the next best thing (NBT).
    In tamilnadu there is no need for the NBT ie SSVs in temple service – historically as well as presently and ;the special temple service SSVs were doing have been taken over by other mirasdars.
    Even Sripadam Thangis are not spared.

    3. However in AP and Karnataka, the SSVs were and are attached to temple service and this continues.
    But for Srirangam, the SSVs are fully absent and washed out in other Divya Desams and other vaishnavite temples in Tamilnadu.

    4. I thank you for the regards you have shown to this community and the pains you have taken to enlighten this community to utilise the oppurturnity the Government is providing. Your coming to this face book page itself is a divine will.

    5. I am sure suddha sampradaya SSVs who are eligible and are interested will seize the oppurtunity and rise upto the occasion. Service in temples is service to God and society and the Govt is ensuring the livelihood and it augurs well.

    Krishnamohan

    Reply
  11. Suresh Babu

    Hi I am sureshbabu from tamilnadu. I am intersted to know about our community. Keep post on it. There is also a group in facebook. We can be together with facebook.

    Reply
  12. S.Lakshminarayanan

    Dear All,

    In Tamilnadu Adiyen knows some countable number of persons doing archaka kainkaryam in their village.

    Adiyen Ramanunajadasan

    Reply
  13. Dilip

    Its a wonderful article posted and am glad to c so many reply’s coming around. Yes it is true that uplift of the community is necessary. We have to device ways inorder to get an Identity in the society. Though we do have a monthly magazine circulated from hyderabad office still lot of people dont even know the events and activities being conducted in AP. I hail from Anantapur and lot of people from our community are performing archakatvam in and around anantapur.

    If people think we are small in number lets take an example of small countries like japan and singapore and build an identity for ourself.

    We do have the talent and administration potential but lacking the world best method of development. TEAMWORK.

    Start working together will reach the destiny of Identity and Origin.

    Reply
    1. Karpuram Venkateswarlu

      Dear Dilip, YOu know in Hyderabad our community is doing service to our people by giving scholorships to bright students and organizing archaka trainingsEts. You can organize in ananthapur bu educating poor people about the welfare programmes of Govt and aassiting needy to get assitance.
      Karpuram Venkateswarlu
      Ex president of Ap Chathada Srivaishnava communty
      9849582672
      karpuram_venkat_venkat@yahoo.com

      Reply
    2. ln

      Hi Dilip,
      This is Narasimha,
      From KADAPA dist, could u pls give the information who is monitoring our community in Anantapur dist give the contact info.& ur number pls.

      Thanks You,
      09030707232

      Reply
      1. dlip

        Dear Narasimha,

        P V Ramakrishna is looking after for Anantapur dist csv community. Dont know if someone has taken up now as I am presently in Bangalore.
        My number 7829746659.
        email: getvdk@gmail.com

        regards,
        Dilip

  14. Bhadragiri Venkata Jagadheesh

    Hi Dear all SSVs I read all the posts and felt very happy. I too strongly feel that our community should come up in always. Let me introduce myself, I am Bhadragiri Venkata Jagadheesh working as LIC Development Officer in Rajamahendri, Andhra Pradesh. My mother’s surname is Tirunagari. I want to know my “GOTRA”, because I recently heard that “RAMANAJU GOTRAM” is not correct and there is a separate gotra’s for each and every Surname. so kindly clarify my doubt.

    Reply
    1. adiyen

      Namaskaram Jagadeesh Garu,

      Are you asking for gotra of thirunagari or for bhadragiri? Also, am not sure what you mean by saying Ramanuja Gotram is \”not correct\”. Some claim Ramanuja Swamyvaru was married, and had children so their descendents came to be called Ramanuja Gotra. Some claim their forefathers were indebted to Ramanuja Swamyvaru for saving them from exile or death or escaping from enemies; and thus adopted His name as gotra to indicate they are reborn or survived due to Him. It appears they were Bharadvaja Gotra before adopting Ramanuja Gotra. Which version is correct is very difficult to say. Maybe both are right.

      From some books i understand Ramanuja Swamygaru was married at the age of 16 to a girl named Thanjamamba or Rakshaamba. But a shortly after His marriage His father namely Asuri Keshava Somayaji, passed away. After this He went with His wife and mother to stay at Kanchipuram where His cousin\’s family lived. However, His marriage was not a happy one. At the age of 18, He became a tridandi. It is not clear if He renounced family life after becoming a tridandi. it is also not clear if He had children from His marriage.

      If Ramanuja Swamygaru had children, it may not be very difficult to trace His lineage. Maybe if you contact Parakala Mutt, it may help you.

      Best Wishes.

      Reply
  15. DASARATHI RAMDAS

    In my opinion those who accept Acharya Ramanuja as their guru and get initiation through manthropadesam are one and there is no room for caste based identity. It is appropriate for the followers of Acharya Ramanuja to be identified as Ramanujites and nothing else. I am a sri vaishnava . In the present socio political state in our country the best solution to preserve and promote sri vaishnavism is to come under a common i e Ramanujaism. UNITY IS STRENGTH .BUT, UNITY IS POSSIBLE ONLY UNDER COMMON IDENTITY.

    Reply
  16. Asuri Sanjay

    hi,
    i am ASURI SANJAY from hyderabad. my no. is 08985970289.
    thanks to madhavan garu for enlightening on the location of TIRUNAGARI. i request to enlighten on ASURI and TIRUKOVELURI as well.

    Reply
    1. Venu

      I think it is THIRUKOVELA as many from Andhra Pradesh has Thirukovela as surname, the name Thiru means “Sacred” and Kovela means “Temple”, which is non other than Sri Ranganatha Temple – in – Sri Rangam. Thirukkoilur is near Thiruvannamalai and Thirunagari is near Sriperumbadur both in Tamil nadu.

      Reply
    2. Nagaraj

      hi,
      Sanjay this is nagaraj thalluri. There was a brief history about us and the name ASURI. I will tell u in telugu.

      పార్వతీ పరమేశ్వరుల కళ్యాణ సమయంలో విశ్వకర్మకూ, అగస్త్యునకూ జరిగిన వాగ్వివాదం వలన అగస్త్యుడు సృష్టించిన ద్రవిడభాష నిరసనకు గురై నిరాదరింపబడింది. ఆ భాషకు తగిన గౌరవాన్ని పునస్సంతరించడానికీ, అజ్ఞానాంధకారంలో కొట్టుమిట్టాడుతున్న జీవులకు మోక్షమార్గం ఉపదేశించడానికీ దక్షిణ దేశంలో అవతరించమని శ్రీమన్నారాయణుడుతన దేవేరులకు, ఆయుధాలకు, పరివారానికి, చిహ్నాలకూ ఆదేశించాడు. అందుకు అనుగుణంగా భూదేవి గోదాదేవిగానూ, ఇతరులు వేరు వేరు ఆళ్వారులుగానూ అవతరించిరి. విష్ణువే శ్రీదేవీ సమేతుడై శ్రీరంగము, కంచి, తిరుమల వంటి పుణ్యక్షేత్రాలలో అవతరించి వారి సేవలను అందుకొన్నాడు. పొయ్‌గయాళ్వారు పాంచజన్యము అంశ అనీ, నమ్మాళ్వారు విష్వక్సేనుని అంశ అనీ – ఇలా ఒక్కొక్క ఆళ్వారు ఒక్కొక్క విష్ణుసేవకుని అంశ అని చెబుతారు.వీరినే ఆ సురిలని , ఆసూరిలు అనగా సూర్యుని అంతటి శక్తి సంపన్నులని అంత వెలుగుని లోకమంతతికి వ్యాపింప చేసే వారని అర్ధం .
      మన ancestors లో చాలామంది పేర్లు ఆసూరితో end అయ్యేవట . i .e రామానుజ ఆసూరి. ఐతే చాల మంది ఆసూరి place లో only సూరి అని మాత్రమే వ్రాస్తున్నారు .

      ఇక తిరు అంటే three అని అర్ధం కోవెల అంటే temple. అంటే మూడు నామాల వాని గుడి లేదా వైష్ణవ ఆలయం అని అర్ధం .

      ఇహ పొతే చాల మందికి తెలియని విషయం who are SSVs. Azwars వ్రాసిన Tamil వేదాలను భగవద్ రామానుజ చార్యుల సమక్షంలో వైష్ణవ ఆలయాలలో మాత్రమే especially ఆనాడు కేవలం శ్రీరంగం and కాంచీపురంలోని వరదరాజస్వామి temples లో మాత్రమే వినిపించేవారు .

      మనది ఒక caste కాదని లేక intercaste వాళ్ళ ఏర్పడిన మరో caste అనిన్ని చాలామంది అనుకుంటారు. కాని ఇందుకు మూలం కూడా మన వైష్ణవ అగ్రహారంలోనే బీజం పడిందని అంటారు .

      Azhwarla లో 5 గురు non brahmins కాగ అందులో దళితులు మరియు శూద్రులు కూడా ఉన్నారు . Azhwar లలోనే అత్యంత శ్రేస్తుడైన Nammalzhwar ఒక tribal కావడం (Vellala Caste), వారిచే రచింపబడిన Vedas ను మరియు తక్కిన 11 గురు వ్రాసిన పద్యాలనూ లేదా పాసురాలను కలిపి దివ్య ప్రబంధం గా దివ్య ఆదేశాలుగా త్రిమతాచార్యులలో ఒకరైన నాతముని చేత క్రోడికరింపబడ్డాయి . దాన్ని అగ్రహారం పెద్దలు అంగీకరించలేదని వారు సంస్కృత వేదాలను మాత్రమే విద్యాలయంలో నేర్పించేవారని తదనంతర కాలంలో దాన్ని రామానుజచారి వెలుగులోకి తెచారనిన్ని ప్రతీతి.

      అగ్రహారంలోని ఎందరో రామానుజాచార్యుల వారి అనుయాయులు ముందుకు వచ్చి తమిళ వేదాలను నేర్చుకోన్నారట. వీరినే తదనంతర కాలంలో “Tekalai batch Sri వైష్ణవాస్” గా పిలిచే వారు. ఇది విప్లవంగా మారుతున్న తరుణంలోనే సాంప్రదాయ అగ్రహర పెద్దలు veerini ika ఉపేక్షించకుడదన్న ఉద్దేశ్యంతో అప్పటి మహారాజైన రెండవ కులతుంగ రామానుజుల వారిపీ ఉన్నవి లేనివి సృష్టించి శ్రీరంగం నుంచి బయటకు పంపేల చేసారట . ఐతే కొందరు తమ భార్య పిల్లలతో బయటకు వచ్చేస్తే మిగిలినవారు ఎందరో తిరిగి వారి గూటికే చేరారట.

      బయటకు వెళ్ళిన రామానుజులవారి అనుయాయులైన వారందరినీ అప్పటి పెద్దలు Sathathin(చనిపోయిన or dead) Sri Vaishnavas అని పిలిచేవారని అదే తదనంతర కాలంలో Sathani or Chattadan మార్చబడిందని మా పూర్వికులు చెబుతారు . వీరిపైనే అగ్రహారం వేటు వేసినదని వారిని కూడా గెంటి వేయించారని అంటారు . Koil Olugu రికార్డ్స్లో కూడా deenipaine ఒక మాట ఉంటుందిదిట . రామానుజాచార్యులు వెళ్ళే ముందు వీర్కి ప్రత్యెక కార్యక్రమాలు అప్పగించారని అమ్డులోనిదే ధనుర్మాస దీక్ష అని కూడా అంటారు .

      అక్షయపాత్ర విశిష్టత :
      పూర్వం పాండవులు తమ అజ్ఞాత వాసాన్ని కొనసాగించే సమయంలోనే అక్షయపాత్ర సృష్టించ బడింది అనిన్ని , అది వారి భుక్తికి ఉపయోగపడిందని చరిత్ర .
      ఇహ మన సంగతి ఆనాడు మన వాళ్ళు బయట పద్య కథలుగా 108 దివ్య క్షేత్రాల చరిత్రను జనులందరికి చెప్పి Jeeyar ల ఆశ్రమానికి తేవడం ప్రతి ఒక్క SSV pani. సాధారణంగా మన వాళ్ళలో కొందరు ధనుర్మాస దీక్షకు వెళ్తారు . ఆ సందర్భంగా వచ్చిన తృణ ధాన్యాలతో సంబందిత జీయర్ల సమక్షంలో గోదాదేవి రంగనాధుల వివాహం జరిపించేవారట . కాని క్రమంగా వారు అన్నింటినీ విడనాడి స్వచ్చందంగా స్వతంత్ర్యంగా ఉండడం మొదలైంది. మిగిలిన వారిలో అతికొద్ది మంది మాత్రమే కొందరు వైష్ణవ ఆలయాలలో పూజారులుగా, చాలా వరకు ఆలయ ప్రాంగణంలో పూల తోటలను మరియు ఆలయ ఆస్తులకు రక్షణ కల్పించేవారట. కాని 1942 లో జరిగిన ఒప్పందంతో మన తమిళ ప్రభందాలను వారి వేదాలతో కలిపివేసి మన పౌరోహిత్యానికి గండికొట్టారు. అంతటితో అధికారికంగా మనం Non-Brahmin గా గుర్తించబద్దాం.

      Reply
      1. Maadhavan Post author

        If this could be translated in to English it will benefit many.

        Regards,

        Maadhavan TJ

      2. Ramesh Kumar

        There is a urgent need of developing the community. Not only as a community activity, most of the times our people were not in a position to baravely express about their cast as they do not know much

      3. Krishnamohan

        I would like SSVs to go through – http://www.nbc.nic.in/Pdf/Orissa/orissa-vol3/20.pdf
        It is an order by the national commission for inclusion of – chattada srivaishnab -in orissa- in the central OBC list. The national commission had drawn the attention to the commission’s orders with respect to Andhra , Karnataka and AP – SSVs. Kindly note the reference numbers for each state. Further as it is a speaking order, it has drawn copiously from sociological authorities during late 19th and 20th centuries.
        The above is a 2007 order. I happened to go through now and felt that it should be shared among SSVs.
        Best of luck.

      4. SampathkumaraSwamy

        Nagaraj Garu…
        I feel Your note on our history is correct.
        But now a days most of SSV are become Non-Vegitarians, not following daily rituals given by Shri Ramanujacharya.
        Thats why now a days also we are still backward.
        Still most of us(Who are vegitarians & follow rituals of Vishistadwata) are respected amongst all other Shri Vaishnavas.
        hope upcoming days all others also become vegitarians.
        Thank you.

  17. Dr.DASYAM SURESH

    hi i am Dr.DASYAM SURESH veterinary doctor 27 years not married, i have interest to know about my cast ,PLZ TELL ME FEMOUS PERSONALITIES OF OUR CAST EX. LEADER, ACTORS AND JAYALALITHA AND KAMAL HASSAN ARE BELONGS TO OUR COMMUNITY OR NOT?my contact number 09440666886

    Reply
  18. h

    Dear All,

    The presetnday Sathada Sri Vaishnavas were supposedly organised as a single community by Sri Manavala Muni and Pillai Lokacharya. However, there used to be archakas in Vishnu koils long before Ramanuja swamyvaru Himself; who either followed agamas or ancient tribal customs of making offerings. It should not be a surprise that in some koils (including siva and amman koils) non-veg was also offered. Though it may be hurtful to some, it is a fact that non-veg or animals were offered as sacrifices even in homams in the past.

    Of late there is wrong information that Vaishnavism is new. This is totally wrong. Vaishnavas and Jains share elements common to both the religions, before diversification into seperate religions. That is, various religions are derived from an ancient tribal past, before each sought to distinguish itself right down to the minute level. The elements of Vaishnavam existed in practice, long before Sri Ramanuja Swamy garu. For example, one of the earliest historical references to Ramayana is from an inscription dated 329 AD. Similarly, the tamil sangam classic perumbanarrupadai dating to around 200 BC mentions Ilam tiriyan as an ikshvaku from the vamsa of Rama.

    While it is a fact that some kings assumed god like status and portrayed themselves as Vishnu avataras (which happened even in Indonesia), no one knows who was the original Vishnu.. Perhaps the original Vishnu was pre-vedic dating long before the vedic period. Or perhaps Vishnu as a concept simply denoted the nature element Sun as some passages in the rig do.

    While there is anthropomorphism, zoomorphism, etc associated with any religion, there are also philosophical concepts, which developed either independently or parallely. Philosophies were developed by various classes and groups since an ancient time. The concept of religious surrender is ancient and rather untraceable. Maybe before the period of Nathamuni, many more prabandhams were composed and disappeared into oblivion without being recorded.

    It must be noted that in the old times, there was no birth based restriction. Anyone could become a prapanna or adiyen surrendering himself or herself to the Lord. I personally feel the concept of religious surrender was borne out of a concept of romanticism, which included deep loyalty, devotion and a sense of giving up everything to a ‘concept’ of God.

    Birth-based rigidity started in chola times. Cholas adopted Saivism and persecuted Vaishnavas. Ramanuja swamygaru did His best to protect Vaishanavas and organised Vaishnavism into a proper religion, putting together the liturgy, corpus texts and compositions of what came to constitute Srivaishnavism. Ramanuja swamy garu employed Sathatha Srivaishnavas in various temples services. Hence they are also known as ‘koil srivaishnavas’. It is very much possible that in that time period it was not politically feasible to go against an establishment following strict caste system or go against dharmashastras.

    Thankfully vaishnava practices such as panchasamskaram remained free of varna and jati bias. Till date they give hope to every individual that no matter what jaati, every human is spiritually endowed. This is indeed a very important and powerful spiritual message. Yet during and after the period of Ramanuja Swamygaru, jati-varna bias possibly took root in Vaishnavam.

    It was sometime around that period that Pillai Lokacharya and later Manavala muni organised Vaishnavas into a single brotherhood asking them to give up caste identities like sacred thread and devoting themselves completely as Vishnu bhaktas. Both brahmins and non-brahmins alike responded to this reform call. These probably added to the numbers of Satthata Srivaishnavas, who undoubtedly existed even before the time of Ramanuja swamyvaru.

    Yet, caste bias came to exist in Vaishavam.

    The Census Report of 1931 states “the request that the name Sattani may be changed to Sattada Sri Vaishnava could not be accepted because Sri Vaishnava is the distinctive name of one group of Brahmins and the Sattani community is not generally treated as a Brahmin community”.

    Apparently SSVs were dubbed shudras in various colonial records. Some claim to escape such ignominy some SSVs became balijas and started claiming either Vaishya or Kshatriya varna.

    No matter what varna or no-varna, there is no doubt that SSVs played a role as archakars since possibly a very ancient period. Yet, owing to the fact that they either gave up or did not follow dharmashastras, they were not recognised as brahmins.

    The SSVs are of Telugu origin. In Andhra, SSVs have crytallised into a seperate caste unto themselves. However, there are also SSVs of Tamil origin (usually vellalars). But some certain telugus claim they (vellala mudaliyars) were originally of telugu origin too. Anyways, whatever may be the linguistic affiliation, as a whole, today, SSVs still claim to be brahmins, though largely following agamas or associated with minor temple duties.

    It is even claimed some SSVs follow dharmashastra prescribed rituals in present time, though am yet to ascertain how far that is true. However, the overall position of SSVs is like the trisanku swargam of neither here nor there. They are not recognised as brahmins by other brahmins; while non-brahmins look upon them as brahmins. Someday hopefully everyone will recognise that to seek God, such social identities are not required (for that matter, neither does one require a religion for that purpose).

    —————————————————————————————
    Disclaimer: All information above is given to the best of my knowledge. Please cross-check if you wish to arrive at conclusions.

    Reply
    1. Muralidharan

      Sir,
      I am very glad to go through your research like detailed analysis of our caste. It very interesting and at the same time you tried to establish the historical fact how we had lost our identity. It is true, during Chola region or even after the invasions my Muslim rulers and also English our country went through many tremors in religion. At the same time we should not forget that our Bharath Desam is the one which has glorious past and also the cradle of many cultures and religions. In the light of above and also with your points, you rightly concluded that it is enough to show surrender towards God to attain Moksha. We are here to do some good to human that is what Srimath Ramanjuachariya spread by the way of his Vaishnavism. Attaining God by the way of humane and kindliness are the lessons taught by our Achariyas. At the same time, we should not forget that one great being in the name of Nayarana is there to make us to act. I am accepting your view.
      Thanks and regards
      Muralidharan

      Reply
  19. bhuvana

    So it becomes apparent (after all of the analyses posted here ) that SSvs have century and centuries of long history where they had been worshipping the deity Lord Vishnu or Lakshmi, doing guru service and divine temple services and doing harm to nobody. They even lost their identity of “brahmins” either due to certain reasons mentioned in the posts or due to present day’s of lack of awareness. Neverthless, many of us silently follow the brahminism similar to that of Iyengars, but unrecognised. It is accepted that true conscience,love to all, service to man are keys to moksha. But is also important that through awareness about the positive aspects as well as past glory of srivaishnavism, we should bring ourselves to the limelight. Better to spread the messages like potentials of SSvs, key customs/duties of SSvs, dos and don’t of srivaisnavism, if any, etc. to our youngsters atleast, so that we could revive our glory and status

    Reply
  20. Thirunagari sharath babu

    Dear madavan garu this is sharath from nizamabad dist. jakranpally village. my father name is thirunagari venkataramana, my grand father name is Thirunagari venkata narsaiah.

    I realy great to know about all this things. my gotra is vishvamitra.

    and one more thing i want to ask one thing what is our profession my grand father was done archakatvam in narasimha swamy temple.

    can any one people from hyderabad who knows our profession please tell me.

    my mail id is
    sharath_thirunagari@yahoo.com

    Reply
    1. Maadhavan Post author

      Hi Sharath, Please refer to the wikipedia link I have provided in the site for further details.

      Reply
      1. koneti sridevi

        Hi Iam Koneti Sridevi and I too belong to this community. It was real valuable information about Chattada Sri Vaishanava’s. Tq very much and interested to receive more information on the same at my mail id.

    2. Shiva Ram Krishna.Thinnavalli

      Hi Sir…My name is Shiva RAM Krishna.Thinnavalli,i am working in Mylan Labs Ltd (It is USA Based Pharma Company) as HR Officer at Hyderabad…..my native place Sathupally,Khammam (Dt)….our profession archaktvam…. in Hyderabad city more doing archakatvam in temples …..it is our profession…….tsrk.hr@gmail.com

      Reply
      1. Ramesh Kumar

        Hi Shiva Ram Krishna,

        My name is Ramesh Kumar Tiruvaimudi, working as Assistant Manager-HR in IMI Mobile Private Limtied, you may please be in touch with me for any queries/issues and let us share and help each other. tiruvaimudi@hotmail.com 9866332059

  21. Thirunagari Gopi Prasad

    Hi Madhavan Garu,

    Im very great full to know all about these things,im very thankful to you bcz u have shared very valuable information about SSV’s.

    Thirunagari Gopi Prasad

    Reply
  22. Karpuram Venkateswarlu

    they are Srivaishnavas who believe in “SriVishnau” but left their sacred thread and “yago
    nopavitam. The difference between Roman catholics and protestents. Difference between sunnis Muslims and Shia Muslims

    Reply
  23. pavan varayogi

    I request of heads of the community to encourage us youngster by forming a special youth body.Our community needs an intergated cooperation under the leadership of talented youngsters to expose the problems of our community to the world.
    If anyone agree with me you can contact me.
    Pavan:9985467467

    Reply
  24. Sri Vaishnavan

    Sathatha shree vaishnava has the culture of wearing sacred thread(“yajgyobaveethan”,”Poonul”) .Nowadays many of us left this culture and became non vegetarians ,even now also in tamilnadu many ssv’s doing temple kaimkaryam and there is no difference between iyengars and ssv’s. Marriages also happens between iyengars and SSV’s.But the fact is as SSv;s left their culture widely iyengars hesitate
    in having Vivaha relationship with SSV;s and they hesitate to tell other about relationship even they had vivaha relationships with SSV’s.

    And We have Ghothram and Pravarams as like brahmins.

    People who uses Ramanuja Ghothra are people who forgot their Ghothra names as they are out of culture.Nothing stories behind Ramanuja ghothram,,

    In saivism people uses Siva ghothra as they do not their real ghothra.like wise SSV’s who doesnt know their ghothra uses Ramanuja ghothra..

    Nowdays in TN Iyengars wont give respect if anyone say im SSV. they consider SSV’s as sudhra…so
    I request all SSV’s,

    1.Please wear poonul(yAGYOBAVEETHAM)(if have that culture with your forefathers)
    2.Do nithyanushtanam(sandhyavanthanam ),learn nithyanushtanam from some periyava who knows rituals well after you wore yagyobaveetham traditonally with veda reciters.
    3.Go to aacharyan/Jeer and get panchasamskaram.
    4.And especially to TN SSV’s try to avoid saying yourself SSV’s to othet vaishnavas(Iyengars),and register yourself Brahmins in caste certificate such as iyengars.

    and one request…

    Dear bandus please inform me if any one of us get marriage with iyengars and People who have the culture of wearing poonul(yagyobaveetham) and run the life like true brahmnas please reply here and contact me..

    Did i said any wrong kshamikka ,,,

    Adiyen Ramanuja Daasan

    Reply
    1. bhuvana

      Chaala bhaga chepthiri. Current community should get awareness and should get back to their older and traditional and lost stride. The points suggested by you should be followed by all SSVs. We do that in our family.

      Reply
    2. SampathkumaraSwamy

      Adiyen Ramanauja Dasan.
      jai Srimannarayana.
      You are absolutely correct & I do agree with you.
      Most of our comminity still following the rules/rituals you mentioned above.
      I got upanayam & wear Yagnopaveetam
      I do every day Sandyavandanam/Anustanam
      I do chant dravida prabandams
      I do daily chant Vishnusahasranama strotram
      So other things followed.
      Nice to meet you.
      Thanking you.
      Regards
      SampathkumaraSwamy
      09949703947

      Reply
    1. Maadhavan Post author

      A pure SriVaishnava need not worry about caste as along as the other person accepts Narayana is the only ultimate god. In Divya Prabhandham (v 3195), Nammalvar clarifies irrespective of caste we should accepts a person who fully believes on Sriman Narayana.

      Reply
      1. santosh kumar yadagiri

        Dear sir/madam,
        Irequried the gotra names with sur names
        Regards,
        Y.Santosh Kumar

  25. penugonda seshaiah

    Hi… Iam seshaiah penugonda, sub inspector of police. I belongs to varaha gotra and some of my relatives belong to vashishta gotra and some are saying as ramanuja gotra as their ancestors didnt inform them about their gotra. We observe upanayana. Can u say exactly about our pravara and all.

    Reply
  26. Maadhavan Post author

    Dear SSV / CSV,

    I have a request for our community. There are number of organisations formed across Andha Pradesh & Tamil Nadu for our community for co-operation and co-ordinations. They are doing lot of good things for the members. These organisations could also spend sometime to make the community understand their origins, the vital characteristic of Sathatha / Chatata Sri Vaishnava, importance of reciting Nalayira Divya Prabhadam, explain the life of Alwars etc. This could be soul searching activity and the youngsters will understand, who are we in a better way.

    Regards

    Maadhavan

    Reply
  27. Jagannadam prashanth

    Srimatho ramanujaya namaha !
    This is jagannadam prashanth
    s/o jagannadam RAMANUJAM
    KARIMNAGER.
    mana cast lo temples lo pujarulu dorakatle more pepole jobs lo set avtnnaru.
    Girls puroshithulanu(pujarini) pelli chesukodaniki ista padatle ammailu.
    Ammailu first telusukondhi mana thathalu muthathalu aha vekateshavrudini sannidilo archakatvam, pujalu cheste meru MBA,MCA.BETCH
    chesi pujarulamani marucharu……….okka ammai aina okka slokam vacha…..
    Plzzzzzzzzzz
    archakathuvamni chulakana cheyakandhi…
    Prashanthjagannadam@gmail.com

    Reply
    1. SampathkumaraSwamy

      Adiyen RamanujaDasan
      Jai Shreemannarayana
      Dear Prashanth Garu
      You are absolutely correct. Now a days none our childred/youth don’t know even smal slokam. Its very sad news that most of our parents also not encouraging them in this regards.
      all are just behind money/status/non-veg/weastern culture only.
      not in tradition/rituals/vaishnavism/vegitarian/culture
      No girls knows about vrathams,upavasam/clasical&devotional songs/music etc
      hope infuture this will change. our old traditions will become fame.
      Regards
      SamapthkumaraSwamy
      09949703947
      kskswamy@gmail.com
      Karimnagar.

      Reply
  28. Sathish Chennakrishnan

    Hi.. Am Sathish from Salem.. 24yrs.. Finished my MBBS at Stanley medical college,Chennai.. I also belong to Sathatha Sri Vaishnava community.. I need to know who r d famous personalities of our community(both in Tamilnadu nd Andhra).. Also i need to know wts d mother tongue of those satatha sri vaishnava in tamilnadu.. And d main thing, in Tamilnadu v belong to MBC, hence other people telling that how v get it being Brahmins nd been criticized that v cheated nd got MBC.. I ve been experienced it long time in schooling, college, still now since marks, cutoff, category were important in my medical field.. I suffered a lot nd i need answer for this.. Also i speak local Telugu mixed with Tamil but i was fond of Tamil.. Wts our history regarding Tamilnadu?.. Was v originated at Andhra?..

    Reply
    1. Maadhavan Post author

      To my knowledge mother tongue of all of Sathatha / Chattada is Telugu. Some of the people in the part of Tamilnadu might have stopped speaking Telugu in their homes. This is a very common factor for the people who do not live in their native place and have migrated long back in history. The language is not that important compared what we need to know learn as community. This community was very Vaishnavite in nature in the past. Now people do not know that and just get dragged by different believes. Our ancestors never accepted any other God except Vishnu / Narayana. They respected and followed (not prayed) the Acharyas and Alwars who believed in Vishnu / Narayana.

      Though their mother tongue is Telugu, these people mastered in hymns of Alwars called Divya Prabhandham, which is in Tamil and used them instead of Sanskrit in all the rituals.

      You must have noticed in this blog some people who are in the extreme end of Andra Pradesh has surnames which resembles birth place of some Alwar or an important Vaishnavite shine town.

      This shows the devotion these people’s ancestors had with Vaishnavism centuries before.

      Now many people do not know this and started believing and praying various Gods and Human Gurus like many other Hindus do.

      There are numerous sangams for our caste in different parts of AP and TN. But their main job is to do “match making” and adding the caste in certain quota list. Though this is also important, we should also understand that the very essence of this community to be clearly explained to all in the community.

      The caste is in MBC in Tamil Nadu mainly due to economic conditions.

      Regards

      Maadhavan

      Reply
      1. Sathish Chennakrishnan

        Thank you sir.. Also which district of Tamilnadu nd Andhra contains our people?.. Whether d marriage occuring between our people those in Tamilnadu nd Andhra?. Wts d difference between us nd Iyengars?.. Wt abt Gothra regarding those in Salem?..

      2. Sathish Chennakrishnan

        Whether those in Tamilnadu had their native at Andhra?. Wts d count of our people in Tamilnadu?..

    2. Krishnamohan.J

      Hai Sathish
      When our community was included as BC initially it is because of backwardness in education. As a matter of fact we are educationally backward even now. Subequently because the percentage of uneducated being more when MBC grouping out of BC was taken out, we also moved to mbc from bc. There is nothing to feel shy about this. This is our rightful privelege and we should continue to enjoy the same. An anectode about this which I have heard is when the list was originally prepared (bc list)by the govt for notification in gazette as 92 MER, Shri: Kamaraj (then hon’ble CM)has asked one of his secretaries who happened to be an SSV in his office and gladly approved the same

      Reply
      1. Sathish Chennakrishnan

        Ya.. I also knew it sir.. But in school nd college they knew that am Brahmin.. They r thinking that v r ayers, nd brahmins as they r seeing in movies.. But v r MBC nd they came to knew through certificates nd they r criticising that v cheated nd got it..I suffered a lot regarding this in my school nd clg(since am Medico community wise marks,cutoffs were important in MBBS nd also for my PG Entrance).. I think most of present generation guys in Tamilnadu had experienced this.. Also i couldn’t explain all these to those fools in school nd clg who r thinking that thr r only Iyers nd Iyengars nd all belong to OC as shown by movies nd by their little knowledge.. So nowadays am not bothering abt it.. Just am telling practical problems nd talking practically.. If thr s any mistake na, pls forgive me..

    3. bhuvana

      hello sathish,

      you reflected the minds of students belonging to our community.
      really the lack of awareness and knowledge about our (SSV) values and tradition are the reasons behind this commotion.
      The post by Sri.Sri Vashnavan here in this blog shall be considered by those who are interested, to curb such criticisms.
      And SSVs who are vegetarians and following Vaishnavism like you should not get discouraged and maintain the individuality. Be proud to be SSV who lost the identity only on search of real aspiration to achieve moksham, kind and humane, service to men and god. Rather than importance to Caste the latter qualities are inevitable as a human being., i.e true vaishnavite. Thats why we are called Sath (sanskrit-true) thadha (sanskrit-dhas) srivaishnava.

      Reply
  29. GOPAL

    A community is essential for the weak & those who need streangth in unity but after attaining streangth educationally / economically why should one forget their root, probably the atomosphere influeces to a greater level. ” JAI SRIMAN NARAYANA'” “SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA” How is that ? .

    Reply
  30. Krishnamohan

    Hai Satheesh
    This is because you happen to be vegetarian. The common thinking in TN is: “All vegetarians are brahmins”. Further we are staunch followers of Vishnu and have all the practices of Iyengars. So the layman thinks that because you do not have the sacred thread -just one thing-you do not cease to be brahmins and you purposefully brand yourself as SSV to get MBC benefits.We are socially and educationally backward and have a rightful inclusion in the list-92 Madras Education Rules. Go through all points in this post. SSVs are second to none. At this juncture, I have to record that not many reap the benefit of inclusion in MBC. The plus two marks are really climbing mount everest for the children of our community. Parents and elders have a role in shaping the challenges for the children. I specifically appreciate you and your elders in your family. I will be happy if you can chronicle (yr wise from your 10th year to 25th year) your- ambitions/hardwork for the benefit of our children and elders.
    May your tribe (ie hardworking people) – in our community increase. Krishnamohan

    Reply
    1. Sathish Chennakrishnan

      Thank u sir.. Am also eagerly awaiting a time that our community fluorishes in Tamilnadu with more Doctors, Engineers, Administrative officers like other castes here… Also am proud to be Vegeterian..

      Reply
  31. Krishnamohan

    hi – SSVs
    central obc list (AP-88, TN-133,Karnataka-166 and Orissa -197). These are the numbers against which our community name is included. Further there are two speaking orders of NCBC including our community in central list with respect to Karnataka and Orissa. The same can be seen in http://www.ncbc.nic.in/Pdf/Karnataka/Karnataka-vol3/21.pdf and
    http://www.ncbc.nic.in/Pdf/Orissa/orissa-vol3/20.pdf. It is worth going through as we will be having a sociological feel of our community.
    Krishnamohan

    Reply
  32. karpuram venkateswarlu

    atleast 10 people are completing their MBBS course in andhrapradesh eveery year now a days. In the case of engineers specially in software 100 engineers are passing out every year.It is so in other siciplines also.There are 6 professors in various universities belonging to our community. Already two of them retired as Vice Chancellors. Dr.Venkateswarlu is the director of animal husbandry department of andhrapradesh.We have no choice in choosing our mother so also we have no choice in choosing our caste, As we respect mother we ahould respect our caste.

    Reply
  33. Tirunagari Shree Kumar

    Hi everyone,
    Yes! am extremely happy to know that there are many others who have and are undergoing this same identity crisis if you may call it ! .
    I have gone through the very same situation during schooling and college especially Medicine and as my father put it when as a child I asked him when he was in a good mood of course (they : daddy’s of that generation were very strict u see) -” What community are we daddy ” as my English teacher asked me on the first day ,when I joined this new school and I said I don’t know and made to sit out of class – he said I will come and talk to him and next day he came and I don’t know what happened and since then that teacher and all the other teachers ,principal treated me differently can’t say looked down upon but more of a perplexed stand and I do not know what my dad spoke – but , since then I have been told by my dad if any body asks you ur answer will be I am a Hindu and if they are still probing then you can tell them srivaishnavite and leave it at that and no more ?
    Well it served me well all my life but still leaves me with many unanswered questions which do bug me but really didn’t pay much attention to all of this till I accidentally stumbled upon this site now and felt there are many more like me lost in this vortex of life but still having such unanswered questions in their mind .
    Sure love to know where this community centre is and who to contact in Hyderabad to see what I can make out of it . Hope to get to some basics in learning and cultivating this religious accent to my life which has always been very scary as that scary feel stems from ignorance to this aspect of life .
    I am extremely happy to have found this and hope to develop and serve after I know who I actually am lineage wise first , I only know that my surname is Tirunagari and I use the Ramanuja goth ram and my ancestors grandparents lived in Nalgonda district of Andhra Pradesh and that they are originally from Tamil Nadu somewhere (hearsay during my childhood ) we never had the courage or the need to probe these issues till later in life so the ignorance!
    Well I thank everyone and the creators of this – hoping to develop some spiritual feel to my life and appreciate all inputs to this comment of mine
    Regards ,
    Shree Kumar Tirunagari
    Mail : drtksree@yahoo.com

    Reply
    1. Krishnamohan

      Dear Venkateswarlu and Sree Kumar

      I am 63 now and perhaps being in chennai, I did not have the inconveniences as you have suggested/experienced. I have maintained vocally and loudly in all settings – school/college, officially, in all religious and social places about my- being an SSV,- being not a brahmin,- being a backward and got acknowledged as such. A week back I was in a temple in Andhra Pradesh and had the benefit of the audience of a senior functionary in a vaishnavite temple who was 80+ and who was from TN. Naturally as is the custom he enquired about my roots and when I told about myself, he acknowledged our people’s-community’s contribution to vaishnavism. He recalled his child hood where he had a SSV as neighbour and said that his neigbour will be up early in the morninging with srichurnam and pundarikam. The said SSV named his son as Vagulabarana and this greatly impressed him about his neighbour and SSV as community. I had lunch to-gether with this functionary.
      I have worked in north india, where your roots are considered important and not being a brahmin or bhumihar your position in heirarchy is determined depending on the role of the community. Of course this is not for SSV only but for all the people. (to be contd)

      Reply
  34. Krishnamohan

    Contd:
    Dear Venkateswarlu and Sree Kumar
    I have worked in educational institutions and during admissions I have found that not many -for that matter any- from SSV do come up to college/technical education level. In this scenario, pursuing MBBS in govt colleges is really a great performance. I am happy about the performance of SSVs as stated by Venkateswarlu but this is still not significant. The elders in SSV community have to ponder over this and plan a life time strategy for children in their family and ensure qualify education coupled with success. SSVs should have confidence, Courage and conviction about their goals and ambitions. Spiritual success will follow material success.

    Krishnamohan

    Reply
    1. tshreekumar

      Love to hear more on the issue am also eagerly waiting for the elders in this group for their comments and thoughts as are the ones who posted this

      Reply
  35. Krishnamohan

    hi sadhana for the query and shreekumar who is eagerly waiting for the response of elders

    Marriages/alliances happen broadly in three situation as follows:

    01. Love marriages :- where both the man and woman choose their life partners without the proposal being emanated from elders. The elders in the family approve such marriages – immediately in some cases, by participating and going thru the marriage rituals.In some cases it is not approved till the end. As is apparent, it may happen that both the partners may be vaishnavites or not.
    02.Arranged marriage within relations or after seeking alliance within the community. Here not only the spouse but their families and the relatives have the responsibility to ensure that the marriage is successful and they play a major part in shaping the future of the couple. Viability of the institution of the marriage between the couples are ensured.
    3. I think Sadhana is referring to a situation where an SSV is sought in a proposal by a non-SSV but a vaishnavite. Or an SSV seeks a vaishnavite non-SSV. This is not love marriage but the parents go out of the way and elect the spouse for their child entirely on other conditions.(to be continued)

    Reply
    1. sadhana

      Actually i love a person who belongs to SSV.but we are sri vaishnavas.can we change the caste SSV to sri vaishnavas? is there any chances are available plz mention.

      Reply
  36. Krishnamohan

    Hi sadhana and shreekumar (continued)
    entirely on other conditions or considerations. This is like a merchandise contract.
    The third variety do not have the sanction or approval of the community/society/tradition. If I am not mistaken this may be somewhat called “seerthirutha” marriages. Here for the success of the marriage(or the guarantee for success) as an institution between the partners, the family/relatives (bandhus) on both sides cannot involve themselves without any inhibition.

    I think the issues in the query may be analysed in depth internally by each person without any bias or rancour and come to a considered decision.

    I do appreciate the fine point offered by Madhavan based on Thirumaalai. I think he is referring to Konmeer and kolveer. It is a beautiful concept.

    From Sociological point of view, I know vaishnavites(non-SSV) and SSVs who have migrated to north India 3 to 5 generations back for work and livelihood have no choice but to elect for alliances under third category. There are many migrants in Purnea who are vaishnavites hailing from south. In vaishnavite places like Pushkar etc. This is a reality to be acknowledged.

    Reply
  37. karpuram Venkateswarlu

    SSVs of Andhra Pradesh are organizing themselves and becoming Chaitanya (dynamic) and now they are being called as Chaitanya Sri Vaishnavas excelling in all types of humanendevour.Number of boys and girls are scoring more than 95% marks in competitive examinations, entering all professions which were denied to them hitherto. In the fields of establishing educational institutions and running them they proved themselves. One of the leading caterer is from among SSvs.One of the leading Hospital is owned and managed by our member. As a matter of fact in many District Headquarters towns in Andhra Pradesh our people established Hospitals of repute and enriched the status of our community. Economically they are advanced now on par with other communities reducing the percentage of poverty.70% of the families migrated to urban centers and with their educational background, are suitable employed.
    SSVs of A.P had established an association 60 years back to organize themselves and provide needed assistance to needy among our community. Widow pensions, financial assistance to poor and scholarships to poor students of our community is in place. Further Gold medals are being given to meritorious students of Medicine. Engineering and Science disciplines every year.Sangam provided help and relief materials during natural calamities. Our Sangam participated in all the programmes conducted by our sister organizations in Karnataka and Tamilnadu.We also conducted marriage platforms at Hyderabad and at Tirupathi to meet the requirements of our youngsters of Tamilnadu and Kerala. Our association is having more than 40 branches in our state.
    We publish a monthly magazine in telugu every month publishing the activities of association and articles on Alwars and questionnaire on Bhagavatam Etc. Apart from the above list of brides and bridegrooms are published in the magazine with more than 2000 subscribers spreading over Andhra, tamilnadu and Karnataka. More than 20 members of other countries are also subscribers.
    Address.A.P.C.S.V.Sangam Office.No 2-2-1146/7/12/1 sivam Road.Nallakunta.Hyderabad 500044.Telephone.No04027552653
    Karpuram Venkateswarlu

    Reply
    1. Maadhavan Post author

      I have my personal opinion about calling our community as Chaitanya Sri Vaishnava. We all know about the ISKCON. This organisation is also a Vaishnavaite organisation. They follow the foot steps of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (1486–1534). With all due respect to them, they are different from what we believe-in as our Sampradaya which is Sri Sampradaya & our Philosophy which is Vishitadvita. On the other hand ISKCON follows Sri Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. The name of the Sampradaya that ISKCON follows includes word “Madhva” which indicates Madhvacharya of Udupi who advocated Dvaita philosophy. This is because ISKCON is mainly a Bhakti movement without any philosophical aspect attached to it. Srila Prabhupada founder of IKSCON added “Madhva” to add some philosophical touch to ISKCON to satisfy the intellectual needs of the followers of ISKCON. But we SSV/CSV do not need this as we have all required things in our own belief. If we start calling ourselves as Chaitanya Sri Vaishnava this could mislead our own & other people about our actual Sampradaya & Philosophy.

      Reply
      1. Sridevi

        Hi, I am Sridevi from Salem. I am a Sathadha Sri Vaishnavite. I am in love with a Brahmin, Iyengar boy from Madurai. We both work in Bangalore. Although he is broad minded and does not really care about what my roots are, he used to ask me at times whether you are a Brahmin or non-Brahmin, Iyer or Iyengar (to be clear and to tell his parents about me and my community, he used to ask this). I really will not be able to give him an answer. I will simply tell I am a srivaishnava and we worship Vishnu. Even when I ask my mother or father or other relatives, they will not have an answer (some will say we are iyers and some will say we are iyengars). Most of them put “Iyer” in invitations, but according to my personal research, Iyers worship Lord Shiva. So please tell me whether Sathadha srivaishnava are brahmin or non brahmin.. Do I belong to Iyengars or Iyers. Please clarify my doubt.

      2. Maadhavan Post author

        We are neither Iyers nor Iyengars. Generally Iyers are predominately Shivaites, but Iyengars are staunch Vaishnavites.

        We are simply SSV/CSVs. We just believe in Sriman Narayanana.

        Nammalwar, who is kept at the highest position by all the Sri Vaishnavas (Brahmins and Non-Brahmins) himself is a Non-Brahmin.

        People who know even a bit on Srivaishnavam will understand this.

        Varnas originally refers to the Gunas of humans. Varnas are nothing to do with the birth of a person. This was later misinterpreted.

        As per Sri Vaishnava tradition once a man/woman takes Panchasamaskaram the caste dies there itself.

  38. Krishnamohan.j

    Fellow SSVs
    At the very outset, I wish one and all a very happy and successful 2014. Shri: Madhavan has started this blog in January 2009 and I am happy that I was the first person to come in December 2009. Four years have passed by and the participants have voiced their successes and determination. It is really heartening to note the good strides made by our Andhra brethren and this is worth emulating in other places also. As shri:; Venkateswarlu puts in we have become chaitanya vaishnavas in AP. Our people in TN organise themselves in the fifth day utsavam (9 Garuda sevas) at Alwar Tirunagari by renting a choultry. I hope the same is done at Tiruvali-Tirunagari also (11 Garuda sevas). In Srirangam, a building is being built.This can be propagated by the concerned organisers, sangams and revelevant blogs at least two-three months in advance, so that people participate and come to-gether. This will factor unity in thoughts. I wish all in the community to be proud being SSV.
    Once again I wish a very happy new year.

    Reply
  39. Sathish Chennakrishnan

    In this present era, many of our Youngsters having d same Identity problem that they couldn’t define our Community clearly..
    Elders of our community nd family should teach our real history, and present Youngsters must get to know it in full interest, to pursue development in future….

    Reply
  40. Sathish Chennakrishnan

    Also to avoid confusion, its better v shall leave Iyers/Iyengars from d names, since Vaishnavism doesn’t lie in names.. It lies in true spirit towards Vishnu.. Its my personal opinion…

    Reply
  41. Maadhavan Post author

    Vaishnavites only accepts Vishnu / Narayana as the “Supreme Being”. Many of us might have noticed that there is no “Navagraha deities” in any of the ancient Vaishnavite temple. This is because, unlike other Hindu communities, who go to number of gods for their different problems, true Vaishnavite absolutely believes in Narayana for all their problems. This point needs to be taken back to our community clearly, we are all seeing that even SSV/CSV started making other Gods/Human Gods as their main deity. This is against what our ancestors believed in.

    Reply
  42. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    Dear Friends
    I am a student of Philosophy , Chattada Srivaishnavite by religion and a retired Bank Executive by profession.
    I recently came across this website and felt very interesting to note desire/demand of younger generation to know about their social status and also responses from senior Chattada Vaishnavites.
    At the outset, one should congratulate Mr Madhavan, creator of the website and his patient/prudent efforts to elucidate/ educate the teachings of great Ramanuja vis-à-vis Chattada Sri Vaishnavism. It also reminds the paucity of efforts of the various Associations formed in different states in the name of our CASTE.
    One senior Chattada Srivaishnavites compares the differences of catholics and protestants with chattada srivaishnavites with Srivaishnavites and another asking about the profession of Chattada Srivaishnavites. I shall be constrained to reveal that in AP one major group of our community is holding Group A (most backward class) certificate of BC List and another Group D-28 of BC List. (i.e on the verge of entering forward class. In AP Bacward Classes have been categorised into A,B,C and D according to their backwardness).
    In this discussion, are we not forgetting the responsibility of recognizing the backwardness of fellow human beings i.e. SC/STs. In the Puranic period Hindu Dharma Shastras and Bhagvadgeetha etc. have committed such mistakes. Is it prudent on the part of Chattada Srivaishnavas of modern time backed by the great Ramanuja’s Srivaishnavism the same mistake committed by our ancient elders?
    In this present scenario of Globalisation wherein younger generation of our community diaspora spread around the globe, in the first instance, Caste is irrelevant. However, during the transition period of development of our community ( which is awakening the awareness in our younger community) it is imperative to know the genesis of Reservations of SC/ST and Other Backward Classes in this modern India.
    Reservation for Socially and educationally backward classes have been listed in constitution of India and was stated set the commission to decide reservation for such classes. Time killing tactics kill 40 years (2 generations) and the reservation based on Mandal Commission report was implemented by V. P. Singh.
    One should remember that the Reservations have been introduced in India on the basis of SOCIAL/EDUCATIONAL BACKWARDNESS . But not on the basis of Economical, Political or Religious parametres. The backwardness of a community dependence on all these factors which results in degradation of Social Status. A cursory reading of Books/Talks of Mahatma Phule (for OBCs) and Dr Ambedkar (for OBCs and SC/STs) will give a first hand information in this regard.
    I felt very sad when I read the mail of a young Medico’s plight from Tamilnadu and his dilemma of who is Iyer and Iyyengar. In addition to knowing the crux of teachings Mahatma Phule with regard to the social backwardness of OBCs , I earnestly appeal to all young Chattada Srivaishnavites to please read about the basic principles of our Religion “Sri Vaishnavism” and life history of the founder and propagator of that religion – Sri Ramanuja. Please endeavour to know about importance of the temple of Melkote, Karnataka ( Cheluvanarayana Swamy Temple). What reforms Ramanuja has introduced in that temple during the 12th Century within the limitations prevailing at that time? Why idols of Alwars are imperative in a SriVaishnavite Temple?
    As an ardent student of philosophy, I can write voluminous things about Ramanuja and his teachings but it is suffice to say that he is a Social Reformer and our Acharya is Ramanuja and our Gothra is Ramanuja. He is torch bearer for the new social reorganisation. He is Yathiraja (Emberumannar). He is renowned for the movement of Bhakti (devotion) and Prapatti (Surrender).
    His Religion is Srivaishnavam. His philosophy is Tatva Thrayam (i.e. Nature, individual Souls and Supreme God). Supreme God (Brahman /Narayana/Vishnu) qualified by achit (Nature), chit (individual Souls) is the only reality. This is the philosophy of Visistadvaita.
    For curious and inquisitive young readers I suggest following books for the brief note on our community prevailing 100 years back.
    1. Castes and Tribes of South India by Edgar Thurston Vol-VI P to S pages 297-304
    Edition 1909
    2. Castes & Tribes of Nizam Dominion by Syed Siraj ul Hasan Vol-1 Edition-1920
    Bombay Times Press
    3. Andhrula Sangika Charithra (Telugu) by Sri Suravaram Pratap Reddy
    All the Pdf files of above books are available on http://www.archive.org
    Before concluding, for the benefit of younger generation of our community, though it may be known to them, I feel it obligatory to reiterate that:
    The creamy layer limit for OBC has been increased to 6 lakh from 4.5 lakh.. There is no change in other criteria set earlier. Department of Personnel and Training of Government of India vide its office memorandum no. 36033/1/2013 (Estt- Res) has raised income limit from 4.5 lakh to Rs 6 lakh per anum for determining the Creamy Layer amongst OBC with effect from 16th May 2013.
    Please refer following weblinks for the relevant provisions of Central Government.
    1. http://obcreservation.net/ver2/faq-mainmenu-25/117-obc-creamy-layer-clarification.html#mce_temp_url#
    2. http://www.obcguru.com/

    The eligible OBC candidates are not getting caste certificate due to misinterpretation of creamy layer criteria, especially in case of sons and daughters of government servant.
    As per the creamy-layer criteria issued by Government of India DOPT O.M.
    No.36012/22/93-Est. (SCT) dated 8.9.1993 (also adopted by Supreme Court in recent judgment on Civil writ petition no. 265/2006 on 27% obc reservation in Central higher educational institutions) following important point is misinterpreted due to which whole country is confused including OBCs and authorities issuing the caste certificate.

    NORMALLY AN OBC CANDIDATE HAVING PARENT’S SALARY
    INCOME ABOVE RS. 6.00 LAKH DONT TRY TO GET OBC NON-CREAMYLAYER
    CASTE CERTIFICATE, WHICH IS A TOTALLY WRONG CONCEPT.

    (1) Actually the creamy-layer limit of Rs. 6.00 lakhs is not applicable to “government servant’s salary income” and “farmer’s agricultural income”. It is the creamy-layer limit for “business income” only. As the government servants are to be checked by their post held and farmers by their land holdings hence can not be checked by salary/agricultural income.

    (2) In rule- (6) showing creamy-layer limit of Rs.6.00 lakhs following explanation is already given:

    “Income from salaries or agricultural land shall not be clubbed with income”

    Means Income from salaries and agricultural land both shall not be clubbed with
    the annual income of parents because there is a separate rule number (2) & (3) provided on the basis of “post held” for salaried persons & rule number (5) is provided on the basis of “land holdings” for persons holding agricultural land.

    (3) The criterion (2) & (3) clearly speaks that only the sons and daughter of following
    “government servants” will be treated as creamy-layer.
    (i) Parents, either of whom is a Class I officer. (Direct Recruitment)
    (ii) Parents, both of whom are Class II officers. (Direct Recruitment)
    (iii) Parents of whom only father is a Class II officer and he gets into Class I at the age of 40
    or earlier.
    (iv) In military, colonel and above.
    Note- Other than above 4, all the government servants are not creamy-layer.

    (4) The criteria (5) clearly speak that only following “farmers” will be treated as creamy-layer.
    (i) Having, only irrigated land which is equal to or more than 85% of the statuary ceiling area.
    (ii) The rule of exclusion will not apply if the land holding of a family is exclusively un-
    irrigated.

    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari, Hyderabad Dated 16 Jan 2014
    hnkvenu@gmail.com

    Reply
  43. karpuram venkateswarlu

    Wha I meanchaitanya is dynamisam. Our people have become more dynamic now as compared to oldendays by takinup all professions, business tradeand commerce. Theyhave beecome employers and flourishing. I never meant that we are becoming iscon type of vaishnavites. I have not commented about philosphy..

    Reply
  44. karpuram venkateswarlu

    Article of sr I.vnugopal iis useful as it is incormative to job seekers.we shhould remember these rvices of ambedkar phule and others who fought for the rights of under privelaged

    Reply
  45. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    I am furnishing hereunder excerpts from a book regarding one historical personality known by Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar.
    I appeal to all ardent followers/Chattada Sri Vaishnavism and especially Senior vaishnavites like Sri Karpuram Venkateshwerlu (Ex-President of AP Chattada Srivaishnava Sangam), Sri Krishnamohan and others to peruse all comments of the author of the Book from which I quoted in right spirit as the prestige of our community is at stake. I appeal to Sangams/Associations of community located in India to please try to read this chapter of the book and try to initiate remedial measures.
    An entire chapter is earmarked by the author, Sri T.K.T. Viraraghavacharya in his Book HISTORY OF TIRUPATI (Vol-I, II and III) Edition 1997 Reprint (Second Edition:1982 ). This was published by TTD, Tirupati. Saluva Narsimha was one of the king of Vijayanagara Dynasty .
    Excerpts of Chapter XVI-Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar and Saluva Narasimha.
    (1) From the point of view of temple worship in general it is worthwhile dwelling at some length on the career of Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar who as the trusted lieutenant of Saluva Narasimharaya made full use of all opportunities to gain distinction. Ramanuja Ayyangar is illustrative of a class of men found among all castes of hindus even to-day. These men invariably start their career under an honest impulse to serve the cause of temple worship and strive for its furtherance and grandeur. As the years roll on they acquire influence and have generally also to handle some money. As it often happens with men similarly placed, in course of time they succumb to the insidious influence of vanity and personal ambitions. Ramanuja Ayyangar’s career in Tirumala and Tirupati amply illustrates this. ……………………….. …………………………..

    (2) ……….That Sathakopadasar was a fervent Sri Vaishnava can be from other special endowments he made for Udaiyavar and Tirumangai Alvar temples in Tirupati. His endowment (II.68) dated 23-11-1476 has the further interest to us that it was on that date that the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas appear to have commenced sharing with the Sattina Sri Vaishnavas the privilege of reciting the Prabandhams in front of Sri Ramanuja’s Shrine and of receiving their own share of the prasadams as emoluments. Without Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar’s influence, it would have been well nigh impossible for the Dasar to make these two innovations in Temple practices.

    In every one of the above instances one point was made clear that the donor’s share of the prasadams was to be enjoyed by Ramanuja Ayyangar’s sishyas in the Ramanuja Kutam after his lifetime. The Sattada Sri Vaishnavas were exclusively his disciples. There is no evidence of his having had any Brahmin disciples.
    (3) Whether this institution, known as Ramanujakutam, founded by Saluva Narasimha Devaryar for the benefit and uplift of the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas stood the test of time and made itself appreciated by the public could best be judged by its life after the death of Ramanuja Ayyangar and Saluva Narasimha.
    (4) There is, therefore, reason to believe that the institution founded by Saluva Narasimha and managed by Ramanuja was not popular and that it did not fulfil its purpose. It ceased to exist in the second half of the sixteenth century. So much space has been devoted to this subject so that any one who cares to speculate may form his own ideas as to how the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas who were drawn from all classes of the non-brahmins and specially trained by Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar obviously at the instance of Saluva Narasimha for religious duties, who were accorded the privilege of providing every day the articles of perfumery for the Tirumanjanam and Tiruvaradhanam of Tiruvengadamudaiyan, and receiving in return the daily honours and emoujments due to such service, who also enjoyed the privilege of reciting the Alvar’s Prabandhams in the temples on a footing of equality with the Sattina Srivaishnavas and received a share of the emoluments, and who were so well provided for with endowments by the King himself in the Ramanujakutam, failed to retain what all was theirs by right. That perfumery, which it was their right to supply is now being taken by Brahmins with all temple honours round the pradakshinam before being presented in the shrine. They faile to become the successors of Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar as Kartar of the Ramanujakutam. They were his sishyas and should have been the karetars of the Ramanujakutam and the Por-Bhandaram in preference to Kandadai Madhava Ayyangar. They should have been allowed to recite Prabandham in Goshti.
    Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar’s activities in the temple after the death of Saluva Narasimha possibly throw some light on how the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas went into oblivion…..SaluvaNarasimha seems to have died in 1492 AD and was succeeded by his son Immadi Narasimha.

    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari
    hnkvenu@gmail.com
    I am furnishing hereunder excerpts from a book regarding one historical personality known by Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar.
    I appeal to all ardent followers/Chattada Sri Vaishnavism and especially Senior vaishnavites like Sri Karpuram Venkateshwerlu (Ex-President of AP Chattada Srivaishnava Sangam), Sri Krishnamohan and others to peruse all comments of the author of the Book from which I quoted in right spirit as the prestige of our community is at stake. I appeal to Sangams/Associations of community located in India to please try to read this chapter of the book and try to initiate remedial measures.
    An entire chapter is earmarked by the author, Sri T.K.T. Viraraghavacharya in his Book HISTORY OF TIRUPATI (Vol-I, II and III) Edition 1997 Reprint (Second Edition:1982 ). This was published by TTD, Tirupati. Saluva Narsimha was one of the king of Vijayanagara Dynasty .
    Excerpts of Chapter XVI-Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar and Saluva Narasimha.
    (1) From the point of view of temple worship in general it is worthwhile dwelling at some length on the career of Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar who as the trusted lieutenant of Saluva Narasimharaya made full use of all opportunities to gain distinction. Ramanuja Ayyangar is illustrative of a class of men found among all castes of hindus even to-day. These men invariably start their career under an honest impulse to serve the cause of temple worship and strive for its furtherance and grandeur. As the years roll on they acquire influence and have generally also to handle some money. As it often happens with men similarly placed, in course of time they succumb to the insidious influence of vanity and personal ambitions. Ramanuja Ayyangar’s career in Tirumala and Tirupati amply illustrates this. ……………………….. …………………………..

    (2) ……….That Sathakopadasar was a fervent Sri Vaishnava can be from other special endowments he made for Udaiyavar and Tirumangai Alvar temples in Tirupati. His endowment (II.68) dated 23-11-1476 has the further interest to us that it was on that date that the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas appear to have commenced sharing with the Sattina Sri Vaishnavas the privilege of reciting the Prabandhams in front of Sri Ramanuja’s Shrine and of receiving their own share of the prasadams as emoluments. Without Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar’s influence, it would have been well nigh impossible for the Dasar to make these two innovations in Temple practices.

    In every one of the above instances one point was made clear that the donor’s share of the prasadams was to be enjoyed by Ramanuja Ayyangar’s sishyas in the Ramanuja Kutam after his lifetime. The Sattada Sri Vaishnavas were exclusively his disciples. There is no evidence of his having had any Brahmin disciples.
    (3) Whether this institution, known as Ramanujakutam, founded by Saluva Narasimha Devaryar for the benefit and uplift of the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas stood the test of time and made itself appreciated by the public could best be judged by its life after the death of Ramanuja Ayyangar and Saluva Narasimha.
    (4) There is, therefore, reason to believe that the institution founded by Saluva Narasimha and managed by Ramanuja was not popular and that it did not fulfil its purpose. It ceased to exist in the second half of the sixteenth century. So much space has been devoted to this subject so that any one who cares to speculate may form his own ideas as to how the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas who were drawn from all classes of the non-brahmins and specially trained by Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar obviously at the instance of Saluva Narasimha for religious duties, who were accorded the privilege of providing every day the articles of perfumery for the Tirumanjanam and Tiruvaradhanam of Tiruvengadamudaiyan, and receiving in return the daily honours and emoujments due to such service, who also enjoyed the privilege of reciting the Alvar’s Prabandhams in the temples on a footing of equality with the Sattina Srivaishnavas and received a share of the emoluments, and who were so well provided for with endowments by the King himself in the Ramanujakutam, failed to retain what all was theirs by right. That perfumery, which it was their right to supply is now being taken by Brahmins with all temple honours round the pradakshinam before being presented in the shrine. They faile to become the successors of Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar as Kartar of the Ramanujakutam. They were his sishyas and should have been the karetars of the Ramanujakutam and the Por-Bhandaram in preference to Kandadai Madhava Ayyangar. They should have been allowed to recite Prabandham in Goshti.
    Kandadai Ramanuja Ayyangar’s activities in the temple after the death of Saluva Narasimha possibly throw some light on how the Sattada Sri Vaishnavas went into oblivion…..SaluvaNarasimha seems to have died in 1492 AD and was succeeded by his son Immadi Narasimha.

    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari
    hnkvenu@gmail.com

    Reply
  46. Krishnamohan

    Shri Venugopal
    Robert C Lester has done a yeoman study on SSV. As a matter of fact this forum has his paper as the base. If you go through his full study and the bibiliography of his article, you stumble upon precious pearls on SSVs. Any SSV who comes across any reasearch paper or study connected with SSVs will immediately feel his helplessness and this is natural. There is a book (1930) on epigraphical studies published by TTD and authored by Subrahmanya Sastry. It is a true, neutral commentary and at many places SSVs find respectable mention. As a matter of fact Robert C Lester has copiously drawn from this epidgraphical study and acknowledged in his bibiliography.
    Philospophically in Tirumala once there was a necessity for the service of SSVs when travel to the hills was by walk only and they were chosen as they were the NBT (next best thing). Rule by Mahants, Madathipathis and Power with sattinavas and habitation by more population as the temple town developed ensured systematic redundance of SSVs. SSVs have been replaced by sattinavas and they have taken over the koil kainkaryams which was upto then being rendered by SSVs. There is no use in reminescing about our hoary past.

    Reply
  47. Krishnamohan

    (contd) I will like our community to always remember Robert C Lester, Prof Thiruvengadathan (Robert C Lester’s associate for his study) and Subrahmanya sastry as it is they who have made us to stand upright. I found that in one of the marriage function Robert C Lester’s book(25 pages) has been translated in tamil and given to the persons who attended the function. The same can be done in Telugu and Kannada also by SSVs suitable to the occasion where SSVs participate. Availability of various literature pertaining to SSVs have to be hosted in a separate and exclusive web/url specially including articles/study references, Govt notifications etc.for the benefit of all. Madhavan’s worldpress will contiune to be a success vehicle for sharing our ideas and disseminating finer nuances.
    best of luck and wishes

    Reply
      1. ALAGARI RAVINDRANADH

        sir, ther is a lot of confuse do perform the pitrukarma. in our traditional way how to perform pitru tarpanam. somebdy says ssv system is differnt from others. . In our caste what is the proceedings about the after death karyams( from miniute to 11days). how can we perform the pujas. . any printed book is available? if any body knows please tell me ALAGARI RAVINDRANADH. 08801011363

  48. Krishnamohan

    Dear SSVs,
    I wish to draw the attention of SSVs, particularly AP SSVs to the fact that Paravastu Chinnaya Suri the grammatician (1807-61) was from our lineage. He was the author of Balayavyakarnam Neetichandrika, Sootandra vyakarnamu, Andra Dhatumoola, Neetisangramu, Hindu Dharma Sastra sangraham and (posthumously) Suryandra nigantuvu-a monolingual Telugu Dictionary-published by Andhra Sahitya Parishad, Kakinada. From the book published by Sahitya Akademi, New Delhi authored by Budharaju Radhakrishna (ISBN-81-7201-685-9) on suri, I share the following snippets:(1) Introvert, even when criticised – as – Sale Jandra Sabha madye Satanih pandittomah – did not react – not cowed down. He just minded his job, his learning and his works.(2) he did not even leave a photo of his(3) His conservatism in literacy/ambition is to prove to the world that there are and could be profound scholars in other castes than brahmins (4)As times rolled, champions of his cause and therories were brahmins-both scholars and creative writers(5)It is stated that the senior most person/position in Presidency college will be presented with pure gold wrist bands and honorific title “Sastry” but Chinnaya chose”Suri” for obvious reasons(6)His life in Madras developed his view to the effect that Telugu is not an off- spring of Sanskrit but independent on its own and his creations were to prove this point.(7) After him there were no choice left (as per Budharaju Radhakrishna) and authors/poets have to strictly adhere to the rules which Chinnaya evolved and codified. I think he must have been made of steel in his life/purpose and this quality, I feel is required for all SSVs. with best wishes -Krishnamohan.J PS: Chinnaya’s father’s name is Venkatarangayya and in the web, some other entries on chinnaya suri state that he is a saivite which is not possible. Budharaju Radhakrishna book is authentic.

    Reply
  49. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    Dear vaishnavites
    I wish to state that under the auspices of AP Chattada Srivaishnava Sangam a Trust/Foundation in the name Sri Paravasthu Chinnaya Suri was floated half a decade back. The Trust is being headed by Sri T Narasimhulu, a chattada srivaishnavite and a fond admirer of Chinnaya Suri.
    Venugopalrao Thirunagari – Hyderabad, Telangana

    Reply
  50. J.Krishnamohan

    Alwarthirunagari ” 9 garuda seva ” – SSV sangam hosting dadiyaradanai :
    ——————————————————–
    The 9 garuda seva falls on the 5th day of nammalwar thirunakshathram festivities. This year it is on 6th june. Alwarthirunagari, the birth place of nammalwar is in between Tirunelveli and Tiruchendur and about 25 km from Tirunelveli. The SSV sangam rents a choultry and arranges for food and stay. I request the organisers to come to this forum and furnish the details-address of the venue, the days the facilities are available,contact person if any, cell phone number etc so that our SSV brethren from Karnataka and AP too can plan and come and visit alwar, navathirupathi and nearby thirupathis
    J.Krishnamohan

    Reply
  51. Dr.Sathish Chennakrishnan

    I think our Sathatha sri Vaishnava Grand Meeting on Aug 16 & 17, 2014 at Madurai.. SSVians gather thr… Further information to be updated soon…

    Reply
    1. Ramesh Kumar Tiruvaimudi

      Hi Satish, Good initiative, awaiting for your update on our community meeting.

      Thank you

      Regards
      T Ramesh Kumar
      9866332059

      Reply
  52. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    Dear SSVs
    It is observed that many of Chattada/Sattada Sri Vaishnavas are generally encountering the predicament of Who are SSVs? Sri Madhavan has rightly pointed out the reason for starting this website. The few questions pestering the SSVs frequently are furnished hereunder.
     Why we are being referred to as Chattada/Sattada Sri Vashnavites?
     Are we Vaishnavites?
     Who are Sri Vaishnavites?
     Whether Sri Vaishnavites are also adopting same religion like SSVs?
     Who are Tengalai and Vadagalai Sri Vaishnavites?
     Whether SSVs will come under Tengalai or Vadagalai?
     Who are Sattada Tengalais?
     Who are Sattina Tengalais?
     Who are Sattada Vadagalais?
     Who are Sattina Vadagalais?
     What is the Philosophical importance of Vendata Desika and Manaval Mahamuni in Vaishnavism?
     What is the importance of Alwars in Vaishnavism?
     What is the importance of Acharya parampara in Vaishnavism?
     What is meant by Ubhaya Vedantin?
     Whether Sattina Vadagalais does respect the teachings of Alwars?
     Whether SSVs propagates/adopts a different religion?
     What is Traditional Occupation of SSVs ?
     What is Varna/Caste of SSVs (as classifed by Bhagvad Gita) ?
     Who will affix Varnas to the people in Hindu Society?
     Whether, as per Bhagvad Gita, Varnas are by virtue of one’s Birth?
     I am an American citizen by Birth and my parents are Christians. If I want to adopt Vaishnavism, what will be my caste/Varna in Hindu Society/ especially in Vaishnava Community?
    Recently, I have read again the famous Mandal Commission Report, 1980 to recapitulate myself its salient features. It superscribes on its front page of the Report
    “There is equality only among equals. To equate unequals is to perpetuate unequality” .
    And every one is aware that The Supreme Court of India in its Judgment dated 16.11.1992 in Writ Petition (Civil) No. 930 of 1990 – Indira Sawhney & Ors. Vs. Union of India and Ors., reported in (1992) Supp. 3 SCC 217 directed the Govt. of India, State Governments and Union Territory Administrations to constitute a permanent body in the nature of a Commission or Tribunal for entertaining, examining and recommending upon requests for inclusion and complaints of over-inclusion and under-inclusion in the list of OBCs.

    Pursuant to the direction of the Supreme Court, the Government of India enacted the National Commission for Backward Classes Act, 1993 (Act No. 27 of 1993) for setting up a Commission at National Level viz. “National Commission for Backward Classes” as a permanent body.

    The Act came into effect on the 2nd April, 1993. Section 3 of the Act provides that the Commission shall consist of five Members, comprising of a Chairperson who is or has been a judge of the Supreme Court or of a High Court; a social scientist; two persons, who have special knowledge in matters relating to backward classes; and a Member-Secretary, who is or has been an officer of the Central Government in the rank of a Secretary to the Government of India.

    By virtue of above Act, OBCs are enjoying the limited benefits viz. Reservations in Education and Employment in India introduced by Sri VP Singh government. I, therefore, wants to bring to the notice of SSVs some important observations of Mandal Commission Report. I, being a OBC, always personally felt very educative and informative whenever I read the above Report and hope same with all SSVs.

    Observations of Mandal Commission Report:

     Castes are the building bricks of Hindu social structure. All sorts of virtues and evils have been attributed to caste system by the social historians.
     In his Contemporary Indian Philosophy, Prof.A.R.Wadia has observed “The high metaphysics of Upanishads and ethics of the Gita have been reduced to mere words by the tyranny of the caste. Emphasising the unity of the whole world animate and inanimate, India has yet fostered a social system which has divided her children into water-tight compartments, divided them from one another, generation to generation, for endless centuries.” In this process of division, groups called castes have been permanently assigned high or low ranks simply on the basis of birth.
     One important outcome of this ritual ranking of castes has been to create deep-rooted vested interests in this system and to enable the higher castes to exploit the lower ones through the institutional framework of social organisation.
     The Rigvedic hymn of Purushasukta, which contains the earliest reference to Chaturvarna, also states that after primeval sacrifice,” his mouth became the Brahmin…………from his two feet the Shudra was born” (Rigveda:10.90).
     The real triumph of the caste system lies not in upholding the supremacy of the Brahmin, but in conditioning the consciousness of the lower castes in accepting their inferior status in the fitual hierarchy as a part of the natural order of things. In India caste system has endured for over 3,000 years and even today there appear no symptoms of its early demise. No social institution containing so large an element of unequality and discrimination towards majority of the people can survide that long in a purely social context. It was through an elaborate, complex and subtle scheme of scripture, mythology and ritual that Brahmanism succeeded in investing the caste system with a moral authority that has been seldom effectively challenged even by the most ardent social reformers. How religion and mythology were used to weave this magic web, we shall try to show with the help of some well-known examples.
     The concept of divine origin of the caste system has the authority of the holiest Hindu scriptures. As mentioned earlier, Rigveda describes the creation of four Varnas from the limbs of Purushasukta. The Taittiraya Samhita not only ascribes the origin of Chaturvarna from the limbs of the Creator, but also interprets this origin theologically and gives divine justification of their functions and status.
     In Gita, Lord Krishna says “The four-fold Order was created by Me, on the basis of quality and action”. (Bhagvad Gita: Chapter 4-14).
     “All Hindu Dharma Shastras take caste for granted. All Puranas assume the existence of caste and look upon it as a permanent order of society”.
     “The Dharma Shastras mention that if a man does good deeds he will be born in a high caste and be well-endowed, while if he does evil acts, he will be born in a low caste, or even as an animal, a pig or a donkey”.
     Ranking of the Hindu society into four Varnas furnished Brahmanical orthodoxy with the bed-rock on which it erected its elaborate caste structure. One essential feature of this institution is the concept of ‘purity and pollution’. Numerous instances of living and historical instances can be furnished to vindicate this.
     The award of punishments and levy of taxes were also closely related to an individul’s caste. We can quote several examples from Kautilya’s Artha Shastra, Ramayana and Mahabharat Epics and Apasthamba Sutras. One should not forget to mention about Manu Dharma Shastra, which is one of the Hindu authentic Law Books.
     Manu says that the Killing of a Shudra by a Brahmin is equivalent to the killing of a cat, a mongoose, a frog, an owl or a crow. If a Shudra mentions the name and class of the twice-born, an iron nail of ten fingers long shall be thrust red-hot into his mouth.
     Every important facet of a Shudra’s personal, social and economic activity was severely influenced by his low caste status. Mythology and scriptures were also pressed into service to establish the inherent superiority of the Brahmin and the low social ranking of the Shudras. Tulasidas states in his Ramayana “ Respect/venerate a Brahmin even if he is devoid of all virture, but not a Shudra even if he is packed with virtue and knowledge.
     In Valmiki Ramayana, there is an episode of killing of Shambuka (a shudra by varna) by Rama . One should astonish to know the crime committed by Shambuka. The crime committed by Shambuka is Thapasya(penance).
     If religion was ever used as an opium of the masses, it was done in India, where a small priest-class; by a subtle process of conditioning the thinking of the vast majority of the people, hypnotised them for ages into accepting a role of servility with humility. As labourers, cultivators, craftsmen etc., shudras were the main producers of social surplus. Their social labour was the life-blood of India’s great civilization. Yet socially they were treated as out-castes; they had no right in private property; they carried the main burden of taxes and heaviest punishments were awarded to them for minor infringmenets of the social code. As their low caste status was tied to their birth, the toiled and suffered without any hope.
     In view of permanent stratification of society in hierarchical caste order, members of lower castes have always suffered from discrimination in all walks of life and this has resulted in their social, educational and economic backwardness. In India, therefore, the low ritual caste status of a person has a direct bearing on his social backwardness.
     00000000000000
     The pace of social mobility is no doubt increasing and some traditional features of caste syste have inevitably weakened. But what caste has lost on the ritual front, it has more than gained on the political front. In view of this it will be unrealistic to assume that the institution of caste will with away in the foreseeable future.
     Oooooooooo
     Equality before the Law is a basic Fundamental Right guaranteed under Article 14 of the Constitution. But the principle of ‘equality’ is a double edged weapon. To treat unequals as equals is to perpetuate inequality. The humaneness of a society is determined by the degree of protection it provides to its weaker, handicapped and less gifted members.
     It was in view of these considerations that our Constitution makers made special provisions under Articles 15(4), 16(4), and 46 etc. to protect the interests of SCs, STs and OBCs. Some people consider provisions like reservations of posts for backward classes etc. as a violation of the Fundamental Right and denial of meritorious person’s legitimate due. In fact, ‘merit’ itself is largely a product of favourable environmental privileges and higher rating in an examination does not necessarily reflect higher intrinsic worth of examinee. Children of socially and educationally backward parents coming from rural background cannot compete on an equal footing with children from well to do homes. In view of this ‘merit’ and ‘equality’ should be viewed in proper perspective and the element of privilege should be duly recognised and discounted for when ‘unequals’ are made to run the same race.
    I urge upon young SSVs to read Mandal Commission Report on OBC Reservations invariably and endeavour to propagate the facts of philosophy, religion, caste and Social Backwardness in India.
    I hope the young SSVs are capable and uphold the philosophy of Alwars and Acharyas of Vaishnavism in proper perspective for the benefit of upliftment of Indian Society in the modern Global Village and eschew the dogmatic aspects of Religion.

    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari Hyderabad – Telangana

    Reply
    1. agraharamraghavendra

      dear sir,Venugopal Rao Thirunagari,
      im raghavendra, from secunderabad If this could be translated in to telugu please

      Reply
  53. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    Dear SSVs
    I express my inability to the appeal of Mr Raghavendra for providing Telugu Translation of my previous email with regard to observations of Mandal Commission. I hope Mr.Maadhavan may provide some help/solution for Mr Raghavendra’s request.
    I felt, however, sad about the status of Sattada Sri Vaishnava Community/Class/Caste in the light of Mandal Commission Report observations / revelations. If SSVs read the article/paper presented by Robert C. Lester (available in this website) one can observe the ingenuity of upper classes in downgrading our social status over a period; though to certain extent due to our own beliefs, practices and ignorance in adopting the philosophy of Ramanuja prudently. It visualizes how dogmatic aspects of a religion can be misutilized to the advantage of few vested interested classes.
    In this context, I am quoting hereunder from book/talks of Jiddu Krishnamurthy, a world renowned philosopher:
    “You can be converted from one belief to another, from one
    dogma to another, but you cannot be converted to the
    understanding of reality. Belief is not reality. You can change your
    mind, your opinion, but truth or God is not a conviction: it is an
    experience not based on any belief or dogma, or on any previous
    experience.”
    “The activity of belief is confusing and destructive; it may at first
    seem orderly and constructive, but in its wake there is conflict
    and misery. Every kind of belief, religious or political, prevents the
    understanding of relationship, and there can be no action without
    this understanding.”
    Mr Madhavan has taken lot of efforts to cull the vast information from various sources and presented in this website the essence of Ramanuja’s Philosophy. I urge upon young SSVs to explore the material and weblinks posted by Mr. Maadhavan and enrich themselves in this age of Internet to enhance the dignity of SSVs in Vaishnava Community.
    I envy young SSVs as they are living in the age of Quantum Physics, Cosmology and Astro Biology etc.. Being student of philosophy, I have been really thrilled whenever I fumbled upon articles with regard to the topics on Blackholes, Higgin’s Particle, Space-Time, String Theory, Standard Model of Particle Physics etc.,. It is really inspiring to view the video clippings of Stephen Hawking, Theoretical Physicist. (He is restricted to wheel chair since four decades with many infirmities except communicating through speech generating devices and presenting revolutionary Research Papers/Books in the field of Cosmology/Physics .)
    Lastly, I want to remind young SSVs a popular quotation which reads :
    ‘News is not information. Information is not Knowledge. Knowledge is not Wisdom. Wisdom is not Truth”.

    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari
    Hyderabad, TELANGANA.
    Dated 2nd May, 2014

    Reply
  54. Ramesh Kumar

    Dear Venugaru,

    Thank you very much for the useful info. I have been following this link so long and I have couple of suggestions and plans on our community development on various activities. As we are in the same city we can meet and discuss

    Thank you

    Regards
    T Ramesh Kumar
    tiruvaimudi@gmail.com

    Reply
  55. J.Krishnamohan

    Dear Venugopal
    Your posts are making us to sit upright. While many in our community are well educated and well positioned, majority lack the same. The ‘FORWARDS’ in our community have a responsibility towards others in our community or similiar communities who are yet to climb the ladder. It is not just financial help but encourage the youngsters to develop dreams of excelling in education and profession. Our NRIs and successful professionals can reach out to the youngsters who have no role model and have at least 5 to 10 years guidance/mentoring for successful completion of the mission.
    I think this should be possible. This gives satisfaction/fullness/achievement to the mentors also.
    Krishnamohan.J

    Reply
  56. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    Dear SSVs
    With due apologies I am quoting hereunder the comments of Yatindramatadipika of Srinivasadasa and Sri Bhasya of Sri Sri Ramanujacharya:
    “ Yatindramatadipika- Chapter-Jiva- stanza-19: . The Sudras are not qualified, since (such qualification) is contrary (to the teachings of) the adhikarana of ‘the non-sudras’ ( Vedanta Sutras from I.iii.33 to 39 ).”
    (Refer: Yatindramatadipika by Srinivasadasa. Translated to English by Swami Adidevananda with a foreward by Sri P.N.Srinivasachari – Sri Ramakrishna Math, Mylapore, Madras, India – ISBN 71-8120-508-9 Fourth Impression IV-3m 3c-2-96. )
    Sri Bhasya of Ramanujacharya: (Refer: 1.3.33 to 1.3.39. )
    Topic 9: The Right of Sudras for Brahmavidya discussed:
    ………… ………………… ……………………
    38. (And) because of prohibition of bearing and studying (the Vedas) and knowing their meaning (and performing Vedic rites) (to Sudras, they are not entitled to Upanisads).
    Comment: Sudras are debarred from hearing and studying the Vedas. Therefore The Vedas must not be studied in the presence of Sudras”. When they are not entitled even to hear the Vedas the question of their studying them and permorming rites prescribed by them does not arise at all.
    39. And on account of Smrti texts (which prohibit hearing and studying of the Vedas by Sudras)
    Comment: Smritis also Prohibit imparting Vedic Knowledge to Sudras. ‘He is not teach him (a Sudra) sacred duties or vows (Manu IV.80).
    (Refer: Brahma-Sutras – SRI-BHASYA with text, English rendering, comments according to Sri-Bhasya of Sri Ramanuja and Index by Swami Vireswarananda(Part-I) and by Swami Adidevananda Published by Advaita Ashrama-Calcutta. Second Impression, September 1986 3M3C.
    Having quoted the above comments , it is interesting to read the article “ Meaning of Life” appearing in Wikipedia, which I read recently. I reproduce some of the excerpts hereunder for the convenience of SSVs.
    The meaning of life is a philosophical question concerning the significance of life or existence in general. It can also be expressed in different forms, such as “Why are we here?”, “What is life all about?”, and “What is the purpose of existence?” It has been the subject of much philosophical, scientific, and theological speculation throughout history. There have been a large number of proposed answers to these questions from many different cultural and ideological backgrounds.
    The meaning of life is in the philosophical and religious conceptions of existence, social ties, consciousness, and happiness, and borders on many other issues, such as symbolic meaning, ontology, value, purpose, ethics, good and evil, free will, the existence of one or multiple gods, conceptions of God, the soul, and the after life. Scientific contributions focus primarily on describing related empirical facts about the universe, exploring the context and parameters concerning the ‘how’ of life. Science also studies and can provide recommendations for the pursuit of well-being and a related conception of morality. An alternative, humanistic approach poses the question “What is the meaning of my life?” The value of the question pertaining to the purpose of life may coincide with the achievement of ultimate reality, or a feeling of oneness, or even a feeling of sacredness.
    Members of the scientific community and philosophy of science communities believe that science can provide the relevant context, and set of parameters necessary for dealing with topics related to the meaning of life. In their view, science can offer a wide range of insights on topics ranging from the science of happiness to death anxiety. Science can achieve this means by objectively exposing numerous aspects of life and reality, such as the Big Bang, the origin of life, and evolution.
    I hope SSVs have already noted the following observations of Robert C Lester (an article available in this website) on Sattadas.
    “What of the claim by some Sattadas that their tradition is unbroken back to Nammalvar and Parankusa Dasa and, in fact, is the continuing Satvata-Pancaratra heritage? This seems to me to be a reasonable hypothesis. The theology attributed to Pillai Lokacarya et al. did not arise in a vacuum – without context and precedent. While the term sattada is not found in inscriptions earlier than the mid- I 5th century, we have references to Sattadas in the 6000 Guruparamparam and the Koyil Oluku which may represent the situation in the time of Ramanuja, even if the name sattada is from a later time. It is, of course, difficult, if not impossible, to determine what, if anything, in the biographies of Ramanuja and the Srirangam accounts of his activities actually took place as stated; clearly, much of what appears in these accounts is projected back to (or, simply on to) Ramanuja as a means of authorizing or validating some relationship, doctrine or behavior that originated in another context”
    “Regardless of what actually were Ramanuja’s circumstances, the accounts reveal great diversity in the 13th-century (and probably earlier) Vaisnava movement, tensions between theologies and lifestyles and attempts to reconcile differences. We may ask, for instance, why Ramanuja requires five gurus – except that, long after his time, several different strands of Vaisnavism are being reconciled in the personage and circumstances of the Bhasyakara? The Pancaratra Bhagavatas, whose case Yamunacarya argues in his Agamapramanyam, are good candidates for ancestors of the Srirangam-Tirupati Sattadas.”
    “At this point, I tentatively conclude that, indeed, the Sattadas are the descendants of ancient Bhagavatas, anti-caste Vaisnavas from all circumstances of birth and strata of society, most of all the leadership of a Tamil Vaisnava, non-Vedic bhaktimarga centered on the temples. The term sattada must have arisen as vaidika and non-vaidika traditions joined battle for control of the temples”.
    “Over the long run, the Sattadas largely lost the battle, ironically, protecting themselves from total annilhilation by becoming a caste along with all the others, albeit relatively prestigious. (1) ayya is an honorific common among Sattada Srivaisnavas. It is used in the south as a term of respect”.
    “There is also the matter of existence of a sophisticated Sattada literature in relation to a lineage of acaryas, dating, at least, to the sixteenth century. This literature still needs to be fully and carefully examined, but it appears as a logical continuation of Pillai Lokacarya/ Manavalamamuni Srivaisnavism and in relation to a practicing community. Of course, both of the above hypotheses can be valid: Sattada Srivaisnavism practiced by both brahmin and non-brahmin; indeed, this is what one would expect as the practical implication of the bhagavata theology”.

    Lastly, I want to quote, for the benefit of young SSVs, Jiddu Krishnamurthy, one of the renowned 20th century philosopher, with regard to the purpose of Life:
    “You must begin very near to go far. You want the immense without seeing what is close by. You want to know the significance of life. Life has no beginning and no end; it is both death and life; it is the green leaf, and the withered leaf that is driven by the wind; it is love and its immeasurable beauty, the sorrow of solitude and the bliss of aloneness. It cannot be measured, nor can the mind discover it.”
    Finally, I venture to quote:
    “ My goal is simple. It is a complete understanding of the universe, why it is as it is and why it exists at all.” (As quoted in Stephen Hawking’s Universe (1985) by John Boslough, Ch. 7 : The Final Question, p. 77).
    I express my sincere thanks for the comments of Sri Krishnamohan J on my posts.

    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari
    Hyderabad-Telangana 22nd June 2014.

    Reply
  57. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    Whenever I saw Science Fiction Cinemas which features Robots in Key roles of the story, a question will be lingering in my Mind for several days .
    Are We Robots in this Universe? Whether our Fate is Predetermined/Programmed?
    Mr. Maadhavan has compiled a good account of philosophy of Sri Ramanujacharya in a lucid style and posted in this website in addition furnishing links to many websites.
    • According to Ramanuja, God, soul and Nature are three eternal entities. The soul is self-conscious, unchanging, partless and atomic (Anu). The souls are infinite in number. The individual soul of Ramanuja is really individual. It is absolutely real and eternally distinct from God. It has indeed, sprung from Brahman, and is never outside Brahman; nevertheless, it enjoys a separate personal existence and will remain a personality forever.
    • According to Ramanuja, there are three classes of souls, viz., Nitya (eternal), Mukta (free) and Baddha (bound). The bound souls are caught up in the meshes of Samsara and are striving to be released. They wander from life to life till they are redeemed.
    • The final emancipation can be obtained only through Bhakti and the Grace of the Lord. The grace of the Lord comes through Devotion and Prapatti or absolute self-surrender.
    • Karma and Jnana are only means to Bhakti.
    In this context, it is very interesting to observe the comments of Sri Ramanujacharya on Bhakti and Prapatti and Free Will of individual Soul.
    The comments of Ramanuja Charya on Sri Bhasya (I.1.1) has led to a dual interpretation of ‘Divine Grace’ idea with the consequence that it later led to a doctrinal split of the Tengalai (Southern) School and the Vadagalai (Northern) School. The two views have come to be known as the ‘Monkey and Young one Argument’ (Markata Kishora Nyaya), and the ‘Cat and Kitten Argument’ (Marjala Kishora Nyaya).
    The former view maintains that some effort is necessary on the part of the individual soul to evoke divine grace and the latter view holds that the entire initiative lies with God and the individual effort counts for very little. The latter view is also called Nirhetuka Krupa or spontaneous grace of God.
    So far as the SriBhasya is concerned, Ramanuja seems to favour the former view, though in his commentary on Gita and Gadya Traya wherever the idea of Prapatti or absolute unqualified self surrender to God is stressed, he seems to be inclined to the latter view. To Ramanuja Charya the Law of Karma and the operation of Divine Grace are not inconsistent.
    Such being the case, it is interesting to observe the comments of Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, in his famous book “Indian Philosophy” , on Ramanujacharya and his philosophy, which reads as under:
    “Philosophy has its roots in man’s practical needs. If a system of thought cannot justify fundamental human instincts and interpret the deeper spirit of religion, it cannot meet with general acceptance. The speculations of philosophers, which do not comfort us in our stress and suffering, are mere intellectual diversion and not serious thinking. The Absolute of Samkara, rigid, motionless, and totally lacking in initiative or influence, cannot call forth our worship”.
    “Like the Taj Mahal, which is unconscious of the admiration it arouses, the Absolute remains indifferent to the fear and love of its worshippers, and for all those who regard the goal of religion as the goal of philosophy-to know God is to know the real—Samakra’s view seems to be a finished example of learned error”.
    “They feel that it is as unsatisfactory to natural instincts as to trained intelligence. The world is said to be an appearance and God a bloodless Absolute dark with the excess of light. The obvious fact of experience that, when weak and erring human beings call from the depths, the helping hand of grace is stretched out from the unknown, is ignored. Samkara does not deal justly with the living sense of companionship which the devotees have in their difficult lives”.
    “Samkara Charya declares that to save oneself is to lose oneself in the sea of the unknown. Personal values are subordinated to impersonal ones, but the theist protests that truth, beauty and goodness have no reality as self-existent abstractions”.
    It is well known that Sri Ramanuja commences his commentary on the Brahma Sutras (Sri Bhasya) with the following prayer:
    “Akhila Bhuvana Janma Sthema bhangadilile
    Vinata Vividha bhuta vrata raksaika dikse
    Sruti sirasi Vidipte Brahmani Srinivase
    Bhavatu mama parasmin semusi bhaktirupa”
    Meaning: “May knowledge transformed into intense love directed to Srinivasa, the highest Brahman, become mine, the Being whom the creation, preservation and dissolution of the Universe is mere play, whose main resolve is to offer protection to all those who approach Him in all humility and sincerity, and who shines out like a beacon light out of the pages of the scripture”.
    This strikes the keynote of the entire Work (Sri Bhasya). It refers to the knowledge of the Supreme Being which the author wishes should ripen into love. It is known as the ‘Bhakti rupapanna Jnana” of Ramanuja. In this are fused a wisdom and devotion (Jnana and Bhakti) both of which coalesce in God who is the above of all excellences.
    It is, therefore, very enigmatic, to search for answers, for mundane people like me, to questions like:
    • Which way is to be adopted?. ( i.e. Marjala Kishora Nyaya or Markata Kishora Nyaya eg. Gajendra Moksha episode in Bhagavata Purana.).
    • What is Bhakti and Prapatti?
    • What is the Purpose/Meaning of Life?
    • What are Varnas/Castes? Is there any relevance of Caste for Moksha in our present Age?
    • Whether Sattada Vaishnavas are eligible for Bhakti OR Prapatti?
    • Are We Robots in the Leela of Supreme?. Whether our Fate is Predetermined?
    • What is Free Will?
    With the little progress in Scientific thought of present days, it is now appears to be clear that there is a boundary between science and philosophy, between reality and fantasy. That boundary is Quantum Mechanics/Physics. Quantum Mechanics/Physics is the stepping stone between ourselves and the Universe, between what we want and making it actually happen.
    I hope young SSVs are well aware of Black holes in our Universe. Since the Hubble Space Telescope was launched in 1990, there have been many observations of what are believed to be black holes, But the study of black holes began in theoretical physics long before there were any observations of these objects by astronomers. Not just an interesting physical phenomenon, black holes are extreme geometrical objects with fascinating mathematical properties that have posed serious challenges to the foundations of classical and quantum physics.
    It is believed that every galaxy is having a Black hole in its centre. Our Solar system is also stated to be orbiting around a Black hole situated in the centre of Milky Way (i.e. Our Galaxy). A black hole is a place in space where gravity pulls so much that even light can not get out. The gravity is so strong because matter has been squeezed into a tiny space. This can happen when a star is dying. Because no light can get out, people can’t see black holes. They are invisible. Space telescopes with special tools can help find black holes. The special tools can see how stars that are very close to black holes act differently than other stars.
    Recently in January, 2014 Astronomers have used NASA’s Chandra X-ray Observatory and a suite of other telescopes to reveal one of the most powerful black holes known. The black hole has created enormous structures in the hot gas surrounding it and prevented trillions of stars from forming. The black hole is in a galaxy cluster named RX J1532.9+3021 (RX J1532 for short), located about 3.9 billion light years from Earth.. The cluster is very bright in X-rays implying that it is extremely massive, with a mass about a quadrillion – a thousand trillion – times that of the sun. At the center of the cluster is a large elliptical galaxy containing the super massive black hole.
    Are We Robots? Our Future is Pre-Programmed?.
    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari
    Hyderabad – Telangana Date: 28th June 2014.
    .

    Reply
  58. Venugopal Rao Thirunagari

    Dear SSVs
    It would be no exaggeration to say that the one concept which distinguishes Indian philosophy from European philosophy is the concept of Karma . In its essence, it is nothing but the application of the law of cause and effect in the moral sphere. If every good deed had its own reward and every evil deed its own punishment, there would be no difficulty in accepting the doctrine of karma as a universal law in the sphere of morality. Unfortunately, however, it is a part of common human experience that a good man often suffers in spite of his goodness and an evil man prospers, and the evil in him is overlooked in the glare of his wealth and power. This apparent falsification of the moral law has led to the idea that what we call a human personality is but a link in a long chain of births and deaths which may cover millennia and perhaps even eternity. Thus, the Law of Karma has become attached to the idea of rebirth, the idea that what is called death relates only to the death of the physical body, while the soul remains unaffected by it and may be reborn in another body, human or animal. India remains the home of the doctrine of karma.
    To the caste-ridden Hindu, karma affords a key as to why a man is born a braahmana, a ksatriya, a vaisya, a sudra, or an untouchable. In the face of the tragedies of life, it is a comforting thought to believe that this is the result of one’s own karma, and not the result of the will of an unjust God..
    One has to bear in mind that karma is a two-edged theory: it is an effect, and it is also a cause. It is determined as effect, but it is creative as cause. It is not open to us to be blind to the fact that naked fatalism would be inimical to all morality. Morality to be morality implies responsibility, and responsibility implies free will. In other words, karma determines the field of life, but within that field man is free to develop himself, to build up his new karma.
    The series of births and deaths becomes eternal, and, if life is a vale of suffering as it is usually described, this eternity becomes an appalling nightmare. Hindu seers were fully conscious of this, and as a way out of it they developed the concept of Mukti or Moksha (emancipation), which sees the end of this series of births and deaths. There are three traditional paths to mukti. The first is through knowledge, i.e., realizing the oneness of Aatman (Self) as an individual soul with Brahman as the ultimate and only reality. It is a hard path, open only to philosophers. The second path is through karma, action, sacrificial and moral. Ritualistic Hinduism tends to emphasize sacrifices and worship, but the life of high moral purity is also recognized. A good man can attain mukti, his karma ends, and there is no more birth for him. The third path is through Bhakti, devotion to God. This is the easiest as it enables even the masses of the ignorant to attain Mukti. It goes without saying that bhakti implies a pure life of devotion and implies morality.
    There are many critics who are not prepared to accept the philosophical worth of karma and rebirth. It may be difficult, perhaps impossible, to establish its theoretical validity. Its eternity may be appalling, but the idea of eternal burning in hell, which so many religious people believe in, is perhaps even more appalling. Agnosticism is only an expression of man’s inability to know. It satisfies neither the intellect nor the heart.
    In a positive sense there is an insatiable thirst in the human heart and mind to pierce the veil of mystery that shrouds the phenomena of birth and death. The problem of evil is insoluble to many, but, if the doctrine of karma and rebirth helps us to solve our individual problems and brings some peace of mind, it need not be cast aside as mere trash. Intellectually it is intelligible; morally it is satisfying. That is why Indians believe in karma and rebirth.
    In the above context, it is very interesting to read the following recent news items:
     Introducing the Bill in Parliament, Former Minister Kumari Selja described the practice as ‘dehumanising’, ‘inconsistent with the right to live with dignity’ and a ‘stigma and blot’ on society. The law passed by Parliament on September 7, 2013, corrects some of the infirmities of the earlier law, but still has many gaps. The strength of the new law is that it is a central law, binding on all States, and not a State law requiring endorsement by State legislatures, which sadly took 18 years for the 1993 law.
     In a landmark judgement, the Supreme Court on 27 March 2014 ordered the abolition of manual scavenging and asked state governments to provide financial assistance and rehabilitation to those who had lost a family member to the inhuman practice.
    After how many lakhs of Births and Deaths an Individual soul will get Emancipation and Moksha? Those people who born in Fourth Varna and more so Fifth Varna of Hindu Society are sinners by birth ? If we adopt Islam, Christianity, Confucianism ..etc. and Sattada Srivaishnavism religions , can we escape from effect of ‘Doctorine of Karma’ ?
    Rober C Lester says:
    “Sattada Srivaisnavism is a complex phenomenon, much deserving of further study. Conclusions concerning its origin and early development can, at best, be tentative.”
    “I tentatively conclude that, indeed, the Sattadas are the descendants of ancient Bhagavatas, anti-caste Vaisnavas from all circumstances of birth and strata of society, most of all the leadership of a Tamil Vaisnava, non-Vedic bhaktimarga centered on the temples. The term sattada must have arisen as vaidika and non-vaidika traditions joined battle for control of the temples. Over the long run, the Sattadas largely lost the battle, ironically, protecting themselves from total annilhilation by becoming a caste along with all the others, albeit relatively prestigious.”
    In Acharya Parampara of Sri Vaishnavism , How many Non-Brahmin Acharyas are there?
    ‘Yatindramatadipika’, a manual of Ramanuja’s Philosophy, enjoins that Shudras are not qualified to be Bhakta but only entitled to be a Prapanna. Prapanna performs all nitya (regular) and naimittika (incidental) religious duties. (i.e. he is bound to perform natural occupational duties allotted to their castes).
    Dr V Varadachary in his book “Pancaratragama” states: “The devotees of God are classified into five groups. Bhakta, Bhagavadbhakta, Dasa, Prasada and Bhagavata”.
    Are we Robots? Whether our course of Life is Pre-Programmed?
    Venugopal Rao Thirunagari
    Hyderabad – Telangana Dated: 12th July, 2014

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s